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Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities


Tasha
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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Sadly' date=' the one example I've been exposed to is working hard to make it All About the Men in the fandom -- even though the target audience is young girls (My Little Pony: FiM). And there's been some horrifying incidents of creepy harassment at these so-called "BronyCons". :mad:

 

"But us guys aren't all LIKE that!"

 

Fine. What are you doing to stop the ones that ARE?! Especially when there are children involved now...

 

Oh I didn't notice that you had 2 different URLs hiding in your sentence.

 

Yeah that's pretty bad stuff happening at those cons

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

It's really about the very annoying phenomena of how women are treated in Geek/Nerd Spaces(Communities). It's a problem that is honestly prevalent in any stereotypically Male hobby/interest. To be treated as the bubble head who can't possibly know anything. Believe me, that I also see this in the Hot Rodding/ Car enthusiast community. I have to admit that it's fun to blow their mind when I not only understand what they are talking about, but I can show that I know more than they do. It's really annoying to have to prove myself, when I see males who are assumed to know what they are talking about.

 

Perhaps it's because with the Women's movement in the 70's and how women have become more equal in society. We as a gender are starting to show our interest in areas that are outside traditional women's interests. When new people start to appear in a community that community pushes back. Someday I would also love to have a discussion about Racism in Geek Communities. Being basically white, I don't have the experience to actually talk about this from any point of view but as one of the Privileged. That would be a different thread and I dont want to derail this IMHO very important thread.

 

I have similar impressions, but in different communities, and comparing communities can be eye-opening.

 

I've been a gamer for a Long Time, but I've never been much of a con-goer, and the only on-line gaming community I participate in is this one, where the problems under discussion in this thread are not absent but AFAIK this community doesn't quite provide the horror stories that have been linked in at several points. Because of my limited involvement, I don't perceive myself as being someone with a lot of leverage in altering the reprehensible stuff described here. I wouldn't tolerate it if I saw it being done, but I don't get out enough to have seen it being done any more recently than the early 1980s.

 

OTOH, I've been a professional scientist most of my adult life. I belong to the professional astronomy community, and now I am at the periphery of the professional physics community. I perceive myself as having more influence and more at stake in making those communities more gender-equitable, and I've done some things in my career that I think shows that commitment. I see real differences in how enlightened the astronomy and physics communities are vis-a-vis gender issues. Bluntly, physics is horrible and doesn't seem to be making any progress; I am not even sure that most of the physics community would even acknowledge in confidence that there was an issue. Astronomy's not so bad and the signs of improvement are unmistakeable albeit slower than one would want. (Race is an entirely separate issue, and I despair of that being even close to alleviated in my lifetime.)

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Thats so odd. Id have thought that the fields of science would value a person's ideas above all other considerations. I am...disappointed.

 

I think that Science is recovering from having a Ton of Old guys that think they know all of the answers in their fields. Like the US, Younger minds unencumbered with the current orthodoxy are slowly changing the culture. I am sure that the remains of the Old Guard tend to be very conservative in thinking and "old fashoned" when it comes to views of Gender and Race.

 

Changing the culture, and moving change along a bit faster is part of why threads like this one are important. People don't tend to see things in inequality until it's thrust in their face. Some people can see the problem and become part of the solution. Others, perhaps fearful of change cling to the way things have been. Lets just hope we can help everyone see the problems and can start to help change things for the better.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Sociology of a profession, including the profession of science, is a field unto itself. Turnover of people really is important, and if the new people entering the field don't push the social bounds of the community, then the community's social bounds won't change rapidly. There's never a strong reason for people at the top of a pyramid to push for change; rather, there's a tendency to feel approval for a system which has delivered them there. So the change has to be driven by new members. And if the new members have pretty much the same attitudes as the old ones, change doesn't happen.

 

For reasons that I have speculated about (but my guesses are strictly my own guesses), astronomy has the image of being a field where women are welcome and respected, while physics doesn't have that image. So women are approaching 50% of new-minted astronomy PhDs (I put it that way because I think it recently broke 40%, but I am not being successful in finding the definitive statistics at the moment), while physics is down at 20%. And I think that image is as important as anything else, and it's something that the individual science communities don't have direct control over.

 

EDIT: Gah, not as good as I thought. 34% women in the 2010 astronomy PhD crop, the last for which I can find numbers. It was 40% in 2009. As field, astronomy is really small, so that difference is like two people, but characterizing things as "40%" is overly optimistic. Still, it's better than it was. "Back in my day" :doi: the mid-80's, it was 12%.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Sadly' date=' the one example I've been exposed to is working hard to make it All About the Men in the fandom -- even though the target audience is young girls (My Little Pony: FiM). And there's been some horrifying incidents of creepy harassment at these so-called "BronyCons". :mad:

 

I'm can be pretty crass sometimes IRL. And I've been known to hang out in the underbelly of the internet, so I'm well aware of some of the alternate entertainment that elements of this particular fanbase are drawn to...

 

But at the point where you drop rape jokes and N bombs in the presence of children, you need a serious wake up call. Quite possibly a five fingered one...

 

This is internet trolling, 4chan browsing, youtube coment wars brought into real life.

 

Sounds like an Epic Fail by secirty and con staffers too.

 

And I probably would have gelded the Brony in the second link...

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I'll admit to taking a "butt" shot while in Yellowstone. Not a great photo, and it was because of this girl in high heels, ruffled skirt, sparkly hose, and other fashion attire that would of been more in place in a night club instead of on a hiking trail.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

 

Why wouldn't they be? From the male side of the counter, pickup artists seem mostly to be dysfunctional, deceptive douchebags. I can only imagine how much worse they'd look if they were actually hitting on me.

 

cheers, Mark

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I just thought I toss this one out here: It appears Tasha is a bit ahead of the curve. This next story of sexism and harassment is from... the front page of CNN.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/06/living/street-harassment/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

 

(CNN) -- Head down, look straight ahead. Earbuds in, volume off. Walk quickly, but with purpose. Don't make eye contact unless you need to. Look behind you every few blocks, make sure you're not being followed. Don't be obvious.

 

It's not nighttime. You're not in a known drug zone, or the sketchy part of town.

 

This is simply how many women steel themselves when walking down a city street in broad daylight, or even when boarding crowded public transportation. Why? Because many women, regardless of age, weight, or appearance, say they've heard something along the lines of "Hey baby, you want some of this?" or "I like what I see" or "nice ass."

 

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

[h=1]What Women Want (In Female Video Game Protagonists)[/h]http://www.themarysue.com/what-women-want-in-female-video-game-protagonists/

 

Anita Sarkeesian (remember her? http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/internet/2012/07/what-online-harassment-looks]What online harassment looks like ) has provoked some great discussion in Geek Communities. The above link from The Mary Sue answers some questions asked by another blogger about what women want to see in Woman protagonists.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

From Bell of Lost Souls (A Mini Wargamming blog aggregator) comes Women and Wargamming - the Enigma http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/10/women-and-wargaming-enigma.html

 

Asking why more women don't play Warhammer 40k and why women seem to be playing games from Other companies. The Comments column is enlightening and sometimes a bit depressing. Yeah, Tasha with the WoW Deathknight Avatar is me, also the otherposts under another name with the same avatar is also me.

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