Cancer Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Where do guys get this idea? I know I used to suffer from a mild case of it when I was in my late teens' date=' early 20's.[/quote'] That trope is not one confined to the male subset of the species, though. It is one of several reprehensible foundation stones for the whole cheap romance genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Someday my prince will come? Note that the persistence pays off and the playing hard to get memes have a long been part of the sexual dynamic. See: EVERY ROM-COM ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities That trope is not one confined to the male subset of the species' date=' though. It is one of several reprehensible foundation stones for the whole cheap romance genre.[/quote'] This is true, that's why I asked where young men are getting the idea in their heads. I'm assuming they don't read cheap romance novels much. The theme does pop up in a lot of popular fiction, music etc., but I wonder what the roots are? Based on a lot of the stuff read in this thread, and personal experience, it never works. Yet the idea persists. (No pun intended.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities This is true' date=' that's why I asked where young men are getting the idea in their heads. I'm assuming they don't read cheap romance novels much.[/quote'] A LOT of action movies have 'guy meets girl. Personality conflict ensues. Girl gets taken/threatened by bad guys. Guy kills bad guys. Guy gets girl.'. Mind you, it's not the same sort of persistence, but Hollywood does have us thinking sometime that if a hero (or heroine) risks his/her life, sweats a lot, and leaves a pile of corpses he/she deserves love or at least to get laid. Now they do have some exceptions "You're getting on that plane" but often we're (both genders) conditioned to see the love of someone as a reward we earn when it is a hell of a lot more complex than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities This is true, that's why I asked where young men are getting the idea in their heads. I'm assuming they don't read cheap romance novels much. The theme does pop up in a lot of popular fiction, music etc., but I wonder what the roots are? Based on a lot of the stuff read in this thread, and personal experience, it never works. Yet the idea persists. (No pun intended.) Every other form of pop culture entertainment? Oh and it persists because for some people they can't see beyond it? It's their only hope? Not everyone who pines for someone is a potential murder/rapist. And some think it creepy or some may think it's sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Hawk Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Maybe guys do this *stuff* because it works, eventually? Not the creeper stuff, but the 'ask the girl out three times a week' in high school, or the 'try yet another lame pickup line' in the bar. Some girls like persistance, some girls play hard to get, some girls give in to get him to stop trying, and sometimes the girl gives up on the guy she thought she wanted who's ignoring her and settles for the guy who keeps on asking. The trick (for the guy) is to learn the difference between persistant and creepy, and for some improved communications* so the girl can communicate the different messages 'maybe if things don't work out with this other guy' or 'not if you were the last man on Earth'. *Improved communications would help so much, except some people like mixed messages and don't want to change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Every other form of pop culture entertainment? Sure, but where did the idea originate? I'm pretty sure we could go back to our earliest recorded writings and find examples. Oh and it persists because for some people they can't see beyond it? It's their only hope? True. Not everyone who pines for someone is a potential murder/rapist. And some think it creepy or some may think it's sweet. Aha! When's it creepy and when's it sweet? Not talking about the guy who follows a girl/woman around he doesn't even know, talking dirty to her and hitting on her incessantly. But, just Joe Average, who knows a girl and likes her, and asks her out, only to be denied, but just keeps on trying. Not intending to be creepy, but just has the idea that if he keeps persisting, like Urkel, he'll get the girl. We've had a lot of links telling us that it's always creepy. Just take no for an answer. We have hundreds or thousands of years of popular culture saying the opposite. We all probably have heard a few real life examples of persistence paying off, too. So, creepy or sweet? Perhaps there's also a little objectification going on in the female of the species. Don't meet the bar, you're a creeper. Meet the bar, you're sweet. Whether the bar is good job, proper grooming, appearance, etc. (And good job is first here, because EVERY woman I've ever met in a club or bar has asked that question immediately after exchanging names. Granted, that isn't a huge sample size, because I quickly became turned off to the bar/club scene because of it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Sure, but where did the idea originate? I'm pretty sure we could go back to our earliest recorded writings and find examples. True. Aha! When's it creepy and when's it sweet? Not talking about the guy who follows a girl/woman around he doesn't even know, talking dirty to her and hitting on her incessantly. But, just Joe Average, who knows a girl and likes her, and asks her out, only to be denied, but just keeps on trying. Not intending to be creepy, but just has the idea that if he keeps persisting, like Urkel, he'll get the girl. We've had a lot of links telling us that it's always creepy. Just take no for an answer. We have hundreds or thousands of years of popular culture saying the opposite. We all probably have heard a few real life examples of persistence paying off, too. So, creepy or sweet? Perhaps there's also a little objectification going on in the female of the species. Don't meet the bar, you're a creeper. Meet the bar, you're sweet. Whether the bar is good job, proper grooming, appearance, etc. (And good job is first here, because EVERY woman I've ever met in a club or bar has asked that question immediately after exchanging names. Granted, that isn't a huge sample size, because I quickly became turned off to the bar/club scene because of it.) Depends on the girl. If she thinks it's creepy - she tells him so. If she thinks it's sweet - she falls for it. Everyone is different, we're all turned on by different things to a certain degree. And taking no for an answer is always the case - once women got the ability to run their own lives no meaning yes kind of went by the wayside, IMO I've never assumed women were above objectifying men, it might not be purely looks - but Justin Beiber leads me to believe it isn't musical talent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I don't know where it came from, but back in the day, I believed the opposite. I called it the "No Is Forever" doctrine. When a guy asks and is turned down, or the date gets broken by girl for whatever reason, he should not ask again. If she changes her mind, it's incumbent on her to do the asking. AFAICT it was more in line with what women want in general, and it prevents a lot of wasted time and emptional energy on the guy's part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities (And good job is first here' date=' because EVERY woman I've ever met in a club or bar has asked that question immediately after exchanging names. ... [/quote'] Again not intended as a thread derail, but this phenomenon ... men viewed strictly as income ... is a population-wide sexist attitude that generally isn't even recognized as a form of sexism. And if it is so recognized, it's not recognized as reprehensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities There is a fine line between sincere appreciation and lechery, and it is different for every woman. This is what makes dating interesting and exasperating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Again not intended as a thread derail' date=' but this phenomenon ... men viewed strictly as income ... is a population-wide sexist attitude that generally isn't even recognized as a form of sexism. And if it is so recognized, it's not recognized as reprehensible.[/quote'] It's why I'm not married anymore. Her family and after 15 years together she decided that making more money than I did was wrong...I had to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities [h=1]I Don’t Have to be Hot to be Right: hiding from internet sexism[/h] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Again not intended as a thread derail' date=' but this phenomenon ... men viewed strictly as income ... is a population-wide sexist attitude that generally isn't even recognized as a form of sexism. And if it is so recognized, it's not recognized as reprehensible.[/quote'] Perhaps Job is asked for many different reasons. Yeah, it can be a filter for deadbeats, but it can also be a way to try to connect with the other person. To see what you both have in common (ie if you both work in an office, you have similar experiences day to day that you can talk about). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Could be that it is sometimes a benign query, but there are two affirmations above that it sometimes isn't. And I will add a third: back in the day (26 years back now) I got a lot less in the way of filtering-out treatment when I would answer something other than "student" to what I did for a living. Now I will concede that some part of that came from my own attitude: having passed the final orals, and having a job lined up that started when I walked in the door at the new place, made for considerably greater self-esteem, which shows in the meeting-potential-MOTAS arena. But there were still some who wanted nothing to do with some guy who had yet to actually deposit a full-time paycheck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I actually talked to one young lady who said she looks at a guy's shoes first, to see if he has any money. I guess the theory was that guys with money will wear good shoes, while they may be kind of casual otherwise. And also are more likely to keep in new shoes instead of wearing them out before buying new ones. Some people are odd. And shallow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Perhaps Job is asked for many different reasons. Yeah' date=' it can be a filter for deadbeats, but it can also be a way to try to connect with the other person. To see what you both have in common (ie if you both work in an office, you have similar experiences day to day that you can talk about).[/quote'] Oh, there's no doubt that it's a valid ice breaker, but when the conversation goes, "Hi. What do you do?" before you even get to the name, which has happened, then that's a bit of a clue about priorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I actually talked to one young lady who said she looks at a guy's shoes first' date=' to see if he has any money. I guess the theory was that guys with money will wear good shoes, while they may be kind of casual otherwise. And also are more likely to keep in new shoes instead of wearing them out before buying new ones. Some people are odd. And shallow.[/quote'] Huh. My shoes are pretty grungy, even though I make really good scratch. I don't really know why, but I tend to wear my shoes down to the bone before I buy new ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I'm the same way. Mainly, because I'm hard to fit and hate shopping for new ones. Also hate breaking them in. I've had a brand new pair of shoes sitting here for a month (or more?), and I'm still wearing my grungy old ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Huh. My shoes are pretty grungy' date=' even though I make really good scratch. I don't really know why, but I tend to wear my shoes down to the bone before I buy new ones.[/quote'] Me too. I hate buying new shoes: it's a chore. So I tend to buy a bunch every few years and then wear them until they are too scruffy to keep. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Oh' date=' there's no doubt that it's a valid ice breaker, but when the conversation goes, "Hi. What do you do?" before you even get to the name, which has happened, then that's a bit of a clue about priorities.[/quote'] Unfortunately I've seen it in action as well. I knew one lady, an acquaintance , not a romantic interest, who was kind, charming, quite nice...but also quite firm she wouldn't date anyone who didn't make more than she did. That... boggled my mind. Of course, I've met some guys who felt like dirt if they DIDN'T make more than the women in their lives, so that cultural code maybe ingrained into us as a country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I'm lucky I have a sugar mama. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities I'm lucky I have a sugar mama. =) You'll wear the shoes she wants then, and LIKE IT! jk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Actually, she's the one that made me look at shoes the day we bought the last pair. We were in the store for something else. =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities Huh. My shoes are pretty grungy' date=' even though I make really good scratch. I don't really know why, but I tend to wear my shoes down to the bone before I buy new ones.[/quote'] It's how you save money. Also you're happily married with a child. No sense in getting shoes to impress the ladies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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