Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

[Greywind]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

First Facebook would have to crack down on all the multiple account people that have "names" that are obviously not real. Then there's those that start accounts with other people's names.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Guess what things are changing. It's the nature of the world. Sorry that some women treated you badly. If you turn off that anger some and start to treat women like people you might find some geek woman who is your match.

 

Virtually every woman I've been in in LTR with has been a geek of some sort, and in every case our relationship started on a geek level before it morphed into something more physical/emotional, and every exception has ended once the New Relationship Energy has worn off, so Yeah... what she said...

 

Most of the women gamers I know of actually know how to play. They want to have fun in the rpg too. You may be surprised at how many of them enjoy a rampage across the continent. She doesn't know the girls who called you "Stinky Mortimer" (though hopefully you take showers and wear deodorant so the stinky part doesn't apply). To her you are just another player at the table. She wants to play her bad ass Half Ogre Ranger who shoots arrows the size of small trees out of her Longbow and one shots T-Rexes at 1000 yards. She doesn't care about your issues or history, unless you do something to make her aware of it. She also isn't there to pick up guys. She also hopes that the guy who plays Skull Assassin would respect that rape isn't a good subject. esp since She probably has friends who have been raped or worse (or perhaps she has been a victim of that crime herself).

 

Most game stores and Comic Stores that I shop in and have shopped in smell like a regular store. Perhaps with a more book and ink smell, but still just a store. Most store owners treat me quite well. esp once they talk to me and realize that I have been a gamer for a VERY long time. That I not only have money, but I will spend it if they treat me well. That I am a loyal customer that tells her friends what stores are good places to shop and what ones aren't so good. It's been awhile since I have run into the stereotypical Geek who seems to think that Hygiene is for other people.

 

Oh and I know lots of nerdy guys that found true love and have regular relationships with Women (or whomever they are attracted to). There's a bunch of great guys here on the boards that are married and some of them have kids. They found the magic formula that attracted that other person. I would imagine that part of it was letting go of any anger toward women(If they had any). Beyond that, I'll let them chime in if they want to supply you with pointers.

 

Also with the exception of Spaces for Abused women, women's spaces tend to be pretty open to guys too. I know of many activities that tend to be women dominated are actually really open to guys who want to learn. Like everything YMMV and there are definitely groups of women who don't want men around, but the great majority are open. Bridal Showers can be as open as the bride wants them to be. I have seen coed Bridal Showers.

Again, what She Said. I've always been into costuming, from a very early age. As it happens, according to our dominant cultural paradigm, playing dress up with girls shoulda made me 'gay' or something. Instead, it gave me a topic of conversation I could share with many of the geek girls I've ever met, and led me to decisions like "Do I watch the game and drink beer with the guys, or go get naked and take pictures with the girls?", which is really a no-brainer in my book.

 

I have never regretted my choices on that behalf, obviously.

Women are people. Just as weird, just as screwed up, just as conflicted, as any geek. More common ground than not.

All it takes is to let go of the hurt.

[input.jack]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

"This is my place. It is not for you. Stay out." For some nerdy guys that's the comic book shop.... There's a reason the game store smells the way it does.

 

As someone who has worked in game and comic shops since the late 1970's, let me assure you that the owners and operators of those shops do NOT want to foster an atmosphere of "It is not for you. Stay out." Because thats just plain old bad business. Game store owners WANT women to become gamers, because they want EVERYONE to become gamers!

 

If you want your games to be about male bonding, game at the kitchen table at one of your game group's house, or something. Game someplace private. Knock yourselves out! But you do NOT have the right to take that attitude out into the street and inflict it on strangers.

 

There's a really good Mexican resteraunt in the mall near where I live. In order to get to it, I have to walk thru JC Penney's. And its always full of displays of perfume, scarves, womens' clothing, and innumerable girly-thangs I, in my Ogre-ishness know nothing about.

 

Ive probably gone through that store over 200 times by now, in the 20+ years Ive been going to that resteraunt**.

 

NEVER ONCE has anyone there, customer or clerk, made me feel unwelcome, or like I was an "invader". Even though the store is clearly "not for me".

 

If you know gamers who feel they have to be hostile and rude to women to protect their domains, please be so kind as to tell them to knock that s**t off.

 

**Yes, I know I cant spell "resteraunt"

[Greywind]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Restaurant

 

No more excuses.

[Tasha]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Well said

 

I remember Restaurant by remembering that we are eating Beef (ie Tau rus) there. Res Tau rant

[Cygnia]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

And I see another attempt to dismiss what a woman says by objectifying her -- ie "just a cute chick".

 

Hence exactly why we have to keep speaking out against misogyny.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

And I see another attempt to dismiss what a woman says by objectifying her -- ie "just a cute chick".

 

Hence exactly why we have to keep speaking out against misogyny.

 

 

Seems to me latching on to that one facet of what he said shows as much about you as him and completely misunderstands the point.

 

It also seems to me ON BOTH sides overreaction to a valid point doesn't invalidate but doesn't help anyones case either.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I was gonna say, Mortimer sounds like he's got a lot of personal issues. He should take some time to work those out, whether through therapy or a men's group or self-study or something. He shouldn't take them out on the girl sitting at the gaming table who just wants to play a little D&D or Call of Cthulhu.

[massey]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

And I see another attempt to dismiss what a woman says by objectifying her -- ie "just a cute chick".

 

Hence exactly why we have to keep speaking out against misogyny.

 

Don't worry, it was before your time.

[input.jack]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Don't worry' date=' it was before your time.[/quote']

 

Huh?

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Huh?

 

I think he's referring to the Kara incident, though I don't know if that was before Cygnia's time or not.

[Cygnia]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

It's definitely over my head if it happened before mid-2007.

[Greywind]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Yeah, I think it was before that. No need to go dumpster diving.

[lemming]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Well said

 

I remember Restaurant by remembering that we are eating Beef (ie Tau rus) there. Res Tau rant

 

Great advice for a vegetarian!

 

(I just use spell check)

[lemming]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Just because something that is wrong has been happening a long time, does not excuse it from being corrected.

[Tasha]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Great advice for a vegetarian!

 

(I just use spell check)

 

It still worked when I was a vegetarian. I just remembered that most restaurants sold beef

 

Oh and I use spell check too. Firefox (and it's variants) are quite nifty to have a spell checker.

[Cancer]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

It's definitely over my head if it happened before mid-2007.

 

It was. That episode came to a sudden catastrophic end shortly before I joined these boards in Spring 2005. I'm glad I missed it all.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Then there was a certain poster who was a female posing as a male, who didn't ever cause quite the same stir. Not sure of the motive, other than maybe an amateur sociology experiment or something, but that poster was a good contributor to the boards anyway.

[massey]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

As someone who has worked in game and comic shops since the late 1970's' date=' let me assure you that the owners and operators of those shops do NOT want to foster an atmosphere of "It is not for you. Stay out." Because thats just plain old bad business. Game store owners WANT women to become gamers, because they want EVERYONE to become gamers![/quote']

 

Yes, I agree that no store owner in his right mind would want to alienate female customers. You and I are 100% together on that. But go back and look at the initial linked article. The author is talking about how the clerk at the store (possibly not the owner, but certainly an employee) was displaying that exact behavior. So we are left to ask why? Is that particular individual sexist? Were his last 15 female customers women who walked in, asked a million questions, and then left without buying anything? We don't know. Is this a recurring problem or was it just this one guy?

 

We're basically trying to analyze why people we've never met behave in a particular fashion. Is it sexism?

 

You're not going to get bad service at Dillard's or JC Penney's. Those are big chains and they employ people who are friendly to everyone. But go into a dinky little store like Hot Topic where there's a 16 year old girl behind the counter. Dress in a suit. Have short hair. Ask her lots of questions about the latest fashion trends. Watch her roll her eyes. Then see another teenager walk in and ask where the, umm, whatever kids wear these days clothes are. This place is not for you. Go into a high class women's dress shop. Not JC Penney's, go into a little boutique shop that sells Versace and Yves Saint Laurent. Wear an "I roll 20s" t-shirt with a picture of a dragon on it. Have a neckbeard. Relay to the board the level of service you receive.

 

This place is not for you.

 

If you want your games to be about male bonding, game at the kitchen table at one of your game group's house, or something. Game someplace private. Knock yourselves out! But you do NOT have the right to take that attitude out into the street and inflict it on strangers.

 

I sure as hell do have that right. I can be as rude and mean to strangers as I want. It might be classless and I might get my ass kicked, but I don't have to be nice to people.

 

I was gonna say' date=' Mortimer sounds like he's got a lot of personal issues. He should take some time to work those out, whether through therapy or a men's group or self-study or something. He shouldn't take them out on the girl sitting at the gaming table who just wants to play a little D&D or Call of Cthulhu.[/quote']

 

Probably should. Doesn't mean he has, though. I thought we were trying to figure out why sexism may still be a problem in geek culture. I think I hit the nail on the effing head.

 

In my local gaming community, which I think is not far from input.jack's if I remember correctly, we have a large number of Stinky Mortimers. I remember one particular occasion, where a gaming group was getting rather rowdy. They were playing in the store and somehow forgot their manners. A young mother and her maybe 6 year old daughter were at the front of the store looking at Strawberry Shortcake comics or something like that. The guys in the back were having a great time, but started talking about raping virgins and things like that. The young mother and her daughter turned around and left. The owner of the store flew to the back in a rage and threatened to throw everyone out.

 

There seems to be a fairly large portion of gamers who simply don't know how to act around others. This isn't necessarily sexism. Even if it is, we should not be particularly surprised. Guys at strip clubs are pretty sexist too. You're talking about an environment that brings in a certain type of person with great regularity, in which they are not normally expected to behave.

[Cygnia]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

The Video Game Industry Is Finally Taking a Stand Against Sexist Jerks

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I thought we were trying to figure out why sexism may still be a problem in geek culture.

 

I got the impression that we're not trying to figure out why sexism is still a problem, but rather open people's eyes and minds to this fact (because a sizable percentage of males don't realize, or perhaps don't care, that it is a problem) and maybe in the process figure out how we can reduce sexism as a problem.

 

There seems to be a fairly large portion of gamers who simply don't know how to act around others. This isn't necessarily sexism. Even if it is, we should not be particularly surprised.

 

Surprised, no. Disappointed, yes. And if such sexism is being exhibited by a given individual, then: Regretful, yes. Ashamed, yes.

[gojira]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

maybe in the process figure out how we can reduce sexism as a problem.

 

I thought implied here regarding "how" was that if more people spoke up against it, there would be less of a problem. Shame and social pressure should get many of these jerks to change their behavior. Look at the link I posted above about the guy with the tumblr account; he lost his job when it was outed what he was doing.

 

So it's 1) raise awareness, and 2) request assistance and more participation against the jerks.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Yeah, the impression I'm getting from this thread and from talking to women geeks in real life is,

 

1. Guys need to police their own behavior, and not act like stalkers or jerks when women want to participate in the geeky hobbies, and

2. When you see someone acting like a jerk to a woman*, you should take them aside and explain to them "That isn't cool, dude."

 

*Actually, that applies to any one, not just women. But women seem to get a lot of the brunt of it right now.

[gojira]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I suppose the other way to fight sexism is to use humor. Thus I link to the lighter side of misogyny in geek circles, courtesy of Fey Winds. Spoilered due to potentially NSFW hairy ass-cheek.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tasha]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I got the impression that we're not trying to figure out why sexism is still a problem' date=' but rather open people's eyes and minds to this fact (because a sizable percentage of males don't realize, or perhaps don't care, that it [b']is[/b] a problem) and maybe in the process figure out how we can reduce sexism as a problem.

 

Surprised, no. Disappointed, yes. And if such sexism is being exhibited by a given individual, then: Regretful, yes. Ashamed, yes.

 

Yep, I actually have a pretty good idea why some guys are acting that way. In the long run, why isn't really as important as stopping it.

 

Since I did get the feeling that many guys had no idea that either it was going on, or that some of the things said done were actually pretty offensive to women. I figured that we could start to talk about it here and perhaps be able to do something about it.

 

I'll be honest, while the guys here on the boards are all pretty nice. I did assume that the thread would die in a flamewar of Apocalyptic proportions. I am VERY glad that we have been able to keep the tone on the thread fairly civil. So Thank you to everyone who has participated up till now. You all have really reminded me what a great community the Hero Gaming fans are.