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Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities


Tasha

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I did grow up around bodybuilders. Yes there were some people who took steroids, but the vast majority of them were natural. This was way back in the 70's when everyone was on a "Natural foods kick" it was really the start of the Health food store and Vitamin shops. Also, I know guys that went into the Armed Services come back with bodies like that of the picture you have shown. So make excuses if you like, but there ARE guys that can get that big just through lifting weights. Of course that's based solely on genetics, some guys couldn't bulk up that big if they spent their whole life lifting weights.

 

Don't know who this "Zangief" person is. I know that I present anecdotal evidence that guys can get this big naturally. I just think that you don't want to believe anything that doesn't fit your world view. (Also, I have never called you names in this thread. I am not a liar. Lets keep the tone in this thread civil ok?)

 

The clitoris is there to help with orgasm which causes the Cervix (IIRC) to dip itself into the Male's sperm. This increases the chance of actually fertilizing the egg. So it does serve a purpose in Reproduction.

 

Zangief is a video game character...

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

The clitoris is there to help with orgasm which causes the Cervix (IIRC) to dip itself into the Male's sperm. This increases the chance of actually fertilizing the egg. So it does serve a purpose in Reproduction.

 

This. Plus, even if you're in the camp that thinks its only purpose is pleasure, that's still a reproductive end. The more pleasurable an activity, the more you'll do it, and that means . . . more babies. Species survival and all that.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Tasha' date=' Ewa Sonnet. Naturally big breasted and is a dancer, ice skater, singer. Relatively physically fit.[/quote']

 

has a 24" waist which is around a size 14 or so. Even with her breasts she is proportioned quite naturally, nothing like most Video Game women. Who would have her breasts and like a 10" waist.

 

Compare her photos standing up with screen shots of most Video game and Comic Book Women. She has very large breasts, but her waist is pretty straight. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the reality of her breast size. There are women who do genetically have large breasts, but if they get their weight down to what Hollywood prefers (and for Modeling fashion), they tend to lose the fullness of breast size and the roundness of hip and rear end.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

This. Plus' date=' even if you're in the camp that thinks its only purpose is pleasure, that's still a reproductive end. The more pleasurable an activity, the more you'll do it, and that means . . . more babies. Species survival and all that.[/quote']

 

There's about a thousand tons of irony that's hanging over your head by a thread. I don't think you see it.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

has a 24" waist which is around a size 14 or so. Even with her breasts she is proportioned quite naturally, nothing like most Video Game women. Who would have her breasts and like a 10" waist.

 

Compare her photos standing up with screen shots of most Video game and Comic Book Women. She has very large breasts, but her waist is pretty straight. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the reality of her breast size. There are women who do genetically have large breasts, but if they get their weight down to what Hollywood prefers (and for Modeling fashion), they tend to lose the fullness of breast size and the roundness of hip and rear end.

 

What does it matter if they aren't sexual organs? Gonna hate on Sideshow Bob for having really big feet?

 

The fact that you claim to not know who Zangief is means that you're catastrophically unsuited to make a judgment as far as how "most video games" portray men. I mean, Jesus, the guy is well recognized enough to get several speaking lines in the Wreck-It Ralph trailer. The only REAL video game character to do so.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

As far as real-life vs video game male and female bodies go, it's a wash, IMO.

 

Most men never naturally gain the muscle mass seen in extreme cases. Many men do achieve impressive muscle mass.

 

Most women don't naturally have the breast-waist-hip ratio seen in extreme cases. Many women do naturally have large breasts and narrow waists. It's a misconception that breast size is in any way related to a woman's other bodily dimensions. Sure, women with higher body fat also put weight on their breasts, but women with low body fat can also have large breasts. My wife at her thinnest, and she's petite, is still a solid D cup.

 

So, yes, video games are unrealistic in depictions of both genders.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

So' date=' basically, you're arguing that breasts are sexual objectification organs. Sex organs are another matter entirely. Breasts are for feeding, and don't serve any other role in reproduction. Hell, men can breast feed if stimulated enough.[/quote']

 

This. Plus' date=' even if you're in the camp that thinks its only purpose is pleasure, that's still a reproductive end. The more pleasurable an activity, the more you'll do it, and that means . . . more babies. Species survival and all that.[/quote']

 

I'm sure you see no conflict between these two quotes.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Zangief is a video game character...

 

Aaah thanks from Street Fighter. A game of caricatured people. Though I have seen some Samoan guys that could match him for size and muscular, but people that big tend to go to fat pretty quickly from what I have seen IRL. Again this is genetics.

 

Back to Video games. Many many Video games allow guys to play with different amounts of buffness, even skinny guys and fat guys. My point is the default for women is one impossibly skinny women with HUGE breasts. You almost never see alternatives for women who are totally muscular or are in any ways even a little chubby. This is about many women who are asking the Computer and PnP RPG publishers to give us more realistic women as well as the pinup girls. It's about choice, not supressing others. Allow there to be both sexy outfits and armor that covers the skin in a realistic way. There are times that I get a giggle out of walking my avatar around in the skimpy stuff, but mostly I like to be dressed like I envision my character.

 

I guess it comes down to when I play I envision my characters in a certain way. Tasha (who is the name of one of my favorite Fantasy characters), is a Short average bodied Halfling. She is pretty, but mostly she has a magnetic personality. I see her wearing stuff that wouldn't get her killed if she was running across a roof top in a fantasy city. That would cover her so when she has to go through brambles or jump though a window she wouldn't get cut up. I would love to see RPG art that reflected that better. I would love to play a MMORPG that would allow me to have a visual that fit that better.

 

If you are sick of overmuscled guys, then post your complaints on some boards. I'll back you up completely. It would be nice to see some skinny short Magic users or some Thin wiry fighters instead of the Body Builders that make up the majority of male models.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I'm sure you see no conflict between these two quotes.

 

You are getting caught up in Semantics. The social contract is that I don't grab your junk and you don't grab my breasts or other stuff. Also, I won't stare at/talk to the zipper in your pants and you don't stare at/ talk to my breasts. It's really that simple.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I'm sure you see no conflict between these two quotes.

 

Because there isn't any conflict. You're simply ignorant of a few things.

 

The first quote was in response to you incorrectly identifying breasts as sex organs. They're not. They're secondary sexual characteristics, like long facial hair on men. (Wonder why we don't see huge beards all over video games?)

 

Are breasts an object of sexual arousal for males? Yes, typically. Does this make them a sex organ? No. They feed the baby after it pops out, don't really serve any function in reproduction besides that.

 

Are breasts/nipples an erogenous zone? Yes. This is probably where you're drawing your parallel between breasts and the clitoris. However, very few women, and none I've known, can orgasm from stimulation of the breasts. They're still a secondary characteristic, even in light of their role in sexual arousal.

 

So, no, no irony here. Just a little bit of you getting carried away and thinking you're clever.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Stuff like this is one of the reasons my female Warrior in WoW is a Tauren--she's got curves, yeah, but she's also beefy enough to be believable as someone who kicks ass in a hundred pounds of armor. Still sexy, but not a waif with a boob job.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

It's still annoying that the same armor with the same stats covers everything on my male WoW toon, but is exposing skin everywhere on my female toon.

 

Blizzard is apparently unaware that anyone could find a female Tauren attractive, because I don't seem to run into this problem with my main . . . or maybe the problem just doesn't crop up in warrior gear?

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

What does it matter if they aren't sexual organs? Gonna hate on Sideshow Bob for having really big feet?

 

The fact that you claim to not know who Zangief is means that you're catastrophically unsuited to make a judgment as far as how "most video games" portray men. I mean, Jesus, the guy is well recognized enough to get several speaking lines in the Wreck-It Ralph trailer. The only REAL video game character to do so.

 

Sorry I missed the fighting Genre of gaming. I know that I played Street Fighter back in the day, but there were other games that I liked more. Also, I never obsessed enough about those games to actually remember the names of all of the fighters. I was into scrolling shooters more (ie Zaxxon, R-Type, Hyperdrive Sidearms, etc. I also was totally addicted to Gyrus and others like that. I was also quite addicted to Centipede, Major Havoc (still am!), Asteroids and it's sequel Space Duel. I also put a ton of quarters into Computer Space and most Pinball machines that weren't table tipped to screw the player.

 

Since those days, I started playing Wolfenstein 3d on the first 486's on the market. Eventually on my Mac we got Bungie's Marathon Trilogy. Went though Doom I and II played Hexen. Then went to Diablo. All the games were pretty blocky and no women in the game that I remember seeing. Played a bit of Tomb Raider when it came out. With the Impossible avatar of Lara Croft. While her pixels were not realistically proportioned, I remember being pretty happy that she was so incredibly competent which was a nice change. Diablo II came out and more skinny supermodels were in place for the Amazon and Sorceress. I could only play Paladin as a guy (Phooey).

 

I could keep on going. My geek cred is pretty darned strong. I have lived a pretty full life and have seen and played many things you will never see in your life. We could also talk about comics, but rest assured I have been collecting those since the mid 70's and have quite a collection that reaches back to title from the mid 60's or so. I am also pretty well read in Sci Fi and thanks to Blockbuster in the late 80's and early 90's have seen just about every cheezy SciFi and Fantasy Movie that has ever appeared on screen and many that went directly to tv movie.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Stuff like this is one of the reasons my female Warrior in WoW is a Tauren--she's got curves' date=' yeah, but she's also beefy enough to be believable as someone who kicks ass in a hundred pounds of armor. Still sexy, but not a waif with a boob job.[/quote']

 

Whoops forgot about Tauren women. I don't play Horde much. I kind of Wish the Tauren women had a slightly different voice. The one they use is a bit too masculine to my ears. Though on most days it doesn't bother me.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I kind of Wish the Tauren women had a slightly different voice.

 

Same here.

 

The one they use is a bit too masculine to my ears.

 

What gets me is that most of the time it sounds like the voice actress is working really hard at pitching her voice that low; it doesn't sound natural. All the NPC female Tauren voices sound fine, though . . .

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Blizzard is apparently unaware that anyone could find a female Tauren attractive' date=' because I don't seem to run into this problem with my main . . . or maybe the problem just doesn't crop up in warrior gear?[/quote']

 

The same sets of Lingerie Armor exists for Tauren, but isn't really attractive on them. I think the fur tends to de sexualize any sexy armor pieces. YMMV.

 

I remember back in Vanilla WoW, way back before the fitting room was added. I gave this really nice set of lvl 25 or so Mail Leggings to my friend who was playing a Female Human warrior. Imagine my embarassment when the piece looked like Plate panties with knee pads.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

What's creepy is when I wore my fire resist set in classic (black dragonscale)' date=' creepy little gnomes would follow my female NE Warrior around....[/quote']

 

it probably didn't help that the NElf's idle animation made her bounce her breasts.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Blizzard is apparently unaware that anyone could find a female Tauren attractive' date=' because I don't seem to run into this problem with my main . . . or maybe the problem just doesn't crop up in warrior gear?[/quote']

 

A lot of the tier and pvp sets have gotten away from the bare midriff look but there's a lot of plate in game that turns into a belly dancer costume on a female character.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I got the impression that we're not trying to figure out why sexism is still a problem' date=' but rather open people's eyes and minds to this fact (because a sizable percentage of males don't realize, or perhaps don't care, that it [b']is[/b] a problem) and maybe in the process figure out how we can reduce sexism as a problem.

 

 

 

Surprised, no. Disappointed, yes. And if such sexism is being exhibited by a given individual, then: Regretful, yes. Ashamed, yes.

 

Yep, I actually have a pretty good idea why some guys are acting that way. In the long run, why isn't really as important as stopping it.

 

 

Why isn't it as important? If the why could be adequately addressed, the behavior would take care of itself, and it would be a win for the guys also.

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Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I remember when I first created my female gnome. I hadn't even left the starting area for quests and she was already getting groped and hit on. My ignore list was filled up fast. :mad:

 

My first female human character ended up being deleted after being slimed on in the human starting area. Guy was a total creeper.

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