Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

[Ranxerox]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Curious: Why would the B word in arkham asylum be a problem. I haven't played it myself' date=' but it sounds like the people who use it are bad people, and the use of a socially unacceptable word reinforces their badness to the player. Are there 'good guys' in the game who use the word?[/quote']

 

So we can't even show 'bad guys' thinking that women are lesser? Even if they are then immediately whupped by a woman?

 

The problem is that some words, and the B word is one of them, have a slap in the face feel to some groups of people. So, while referring to woman in derogatory terms is completely in character for the sort of thugs that say it in Arkham City, hearing the word is going to sting for a lot of people (mostly woman) and take them out of the enjoyment of the game. This problem is compounded by the fact that it is thug dialogue and each piece of thug dialoge repeated scores if not hundreds of times during the game. So, if the word has a sting factor for you, expect to feel that sting plenty before you make it to the end of the game. That is if the gratuitous camera shots of Catwoman, Poison Ivy and Harley Quin's various assets don't drive you off first.

[Lucius]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

The blog entry that Tasha posted gave me food for thought.

 

Whether we're talking about tabletop or electronic gaming, we are usually playing characters that are gendered. Even an abstract game like the Civilization series asks you to pick a name for the ruler of your civilization, and I noticed and was annoyed by the failure in the very first in the series, Civilization I, to allow for the possibility of a female ruler.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks the problem is not just an absence of female rulers but an abundance of male yardsticks.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Celestia is best Civilization ruler!

[Tasha]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Tasha' date=' does the same level of identification apply in single player games as well?[/quote']

 

Yeah pretty much. The games that I tend to enjoy most are kind of wish fulfillment with good gameplay.

[Tasha]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

The blog entry that Tasha posted gave me food for thought.

 

Whether we're talking about tabletop or electronic gaming, we are usually playing characters that are gendered. Even an abstract game like the Civilization series asks you to pick a name for the ruler of your civilization, and I noticed and was annoyed by the failure in the very first in the series, Civilization I, to allow for the possibility of a female ruler.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks the problem is not just an absence of female rulers but an abundance of male yardsticks.

 

Probably why I enjoyed Civ I's Sequel Alien something or the other. Basically Civ on an alien world with high tech. It's much more interesting than regular civ ever was.

 

(Couldn't you play as Queen Elizabeth in Civ1? it's been so long the only thing I remember is threatening people during diplomacy after I got Nukes)

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Alpha Centauri? I think that was it.

[John T]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Alpha Centauri? I think that was it.

Yes, along with it's expansion, Alien Crossfire. One of my favorite PC games ever.

[gojira]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

"Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri" or SMAC for short. I played the heck out of that game. Not only is it "gender balanced" it's also a fantastic game, period.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier%27s_Alpha_Centauri

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Well, the "Sid Meier's" part was a given. =P

[John T]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

And I still have my copy, neener-neener!

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I still have my copy of the first Civilization, and the board game that inspired it. If only I had a 3.5" floppy drive... =)

[gojira]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

The Hawkeye Initiative: "How to fix every Strong Female Character pose in superhero comics: replace the character with Hawkeye doing the same thing."

 

NSFW due to rather amazing amounts of cheesecake, plus Hawkeye doing the same thing (which can get pretty mind-bending, actually).

 

 

http://thehawkeyeinitiative.tumblr.com/

 

 

Example:

 

EDIT: found a better, and smaller, example.

 

 

[gojira]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I also need to archive this here: Boobs Don't Work That Way. NSFW due to, well, boobs.

 

 

http://boobsdontworkthatway.tumblr.com/

 

 

EDIT: also, Escher Girls:

 

 

http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/

 

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

On the first link (Boobs Don't Work that Way), there's nothing really wrong with the Bleach pic. Orihime has very large breasts, which are drawn being compressed by the wrapped-around towel. Naturally large breasts aren't towel-breakers. Now, you could question the motives behind the character's breast size, but the artwork is fine. (And I don't question her breast size anyway. Bleach has a pretty decent spread of sizes as far as that goes, and not too much cheese cake.)

 

ETA: Just looking at the Hawkeye page. The Spider-Girl pic is a poor choice. She's in a sterotypical Spider-MAN pose anyway. The pose may be silly, but it's classic silly. Nothing inherently sexist there.

 

ETAA: Sites are funny (and sad) BTW, don't mean to be negative. Thanks for the links!

[Tasha]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Alpha Centauri? I think that was it.

 

Yes' date=' along with it's expansion, [i']Alien Crossfire[/i]. One of my favorite PC games ever.

 

Yep one of my favorites as well! I wish they would do a modern version of those. I can get them to work on win 7, but the game really shows it's age.

[Lucius]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

The blog entry that Tasha posted gave me food for thought.

 

Whether we're talking about tabletop or electronic gaming, we are usually playing characters that are gendered. Even an abstract game like the Civilization series asks you to pick a name for the ruler of your civilization, and I noticed and was annoyed by the failure in the very first in the series, Civilization I, to allow for the possibility of a female ruler.

 

To expand on what I was thinking here: This suggests one important point for those of us who design games, and another for the rest of us.

 

 

By those who design games, I don't just mean those who work on computer games or write adventure supplements to role playing games for publication. If you for example run demo games at cons or stores with pregenerated characters, do you make sure to include a reasonable selection of characters of both genders? If it would make sense in the setting, do you have characters who are not white skinned or not of European or quasi-European background?

 

 

And I propose another challenge for all of us. It's perfectly natural of course that we should play characters we identify or that act as wish fulfillment vehicles for us, but I think there is a lot to be gained by breaking out of that comfort zone and trying characters of different background and gender. You might just find yourself with more appreciation of someone else's point of view.

 

 

Yeah pretty much. The games that I tend to enjoy most are kind of wish fulfillment with good gameplay.

 

 

I think part of the problem is that what is wish fulfillment for some men is offensive or offputting to some women, and perhaps even vice versa.

 

 

 

Another part of the problem, now I think of it, is that something can be very wish fulfilling for men and women alike, and some men just don't want to share.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I'm not sure I want to hear the palindromedary's wish fulfillment fantasies

[John T]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Yep one of my favorites as well! I wish they would do a modern version of those. I can get them to work on win 7' date=' but the game really shows it's age.[/quote']

Especially on a modern 1920x1080 screen. Accomodating that (in a way that didn't make me go cross-eyed) was somewhat of a chore.

[John T]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

By those who design games' date=' I don't just mean those who work on computer games or write adventure supplements to role playing games for publication. If you for example run demo games at cons or stores with pregenerated characters, do you make sure to include a reasonable selection of characters of both genders? If it would make sense in the setting, do you have characters who are not white skinned or not of European or quasi-European background?[/quote']

Yes, whenever appropriate to the setting and story. Usually, it's about 50/50 (gender-wise) when no other factors dictate anything specific. Much the same for race/nationality, though the setting controls that more, and the split can be more than two ways.

 

And I propose another challenge for all of us. It's perfectly natural of course that we should play characters we identify or that act as wish fulfillment vehicles for us, but I think there is a lot to be gained by breaking out of that comfort zone and trying characters of different background and gender. You might just find yourself with more appreciation of someone else's point of view.

Yes, but my "comfort zone" has always been pretty broad. Roughly 20% of the characters I've played have been female, simply because "that's what they were" as characters when I conceived them. Race has varied somewhat more I think, but I don't really keep track of that, per se. It's simply a physical description to me.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I'm actually far more comfortable playing a female character than one of a different real-world race or nationality from me. I feel like I can avoid most of the landmines of sexism, but there's too much I just don't know to manage a sensitive portrayal of someone who grew up with very different circumstances and traditions. (My lost-in-time character is Eurasian, but from before Atlantis sank so any cultural aspects are strictly fictional.)

[Sociotard]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Interesting. At one point, Return of the Jedi featured female x-wing pilots

http://starwarsaficionado.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/girl-power-jedis-female-fighter-pilots.html

 

[Orion]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

By those who design games' date=' I don't just mean those who work on computer games or write adventure supplements to role playing games for publication. If you for example run demo games at cons or stores with pregenerated characters, do you make sure to include a reasonable selection of characters of both genders? If it would make sense in the setting, do you have characters who are not white skinned or not of European or quasi-European background?[/quote']

 

I'm pretty hard-core when it comes to allowing certain types of characters in a setting. In scifi and superhero settings, it is gender and race neutral. In these I'd actually advocate creating the character and letting the assigned player choose whatever race and sex they want for it. In historic settings such as Lionheart, I'll require period normal characters, and so will probably assign them myself. Choices in race and sex may be quite limited; in a sword and sorcery setting there is more leeway. I generally don't go for the idea that characters are the 1 in a million and so can be anything they want - I want the character to conform to the setting, not to shoehorn a character in, or rewrite the setting. It all goes back to my belief that the setting is more important than the characters, and so the characters must be changed, not the setting.

 

And I propose another challenge for all of us. It's perfectly natural of course that we should play characters we identify or that act as wish fulfillment vehicles for us' date=' but I think there is a lot to be gained by breaking out of that comfort zone and trying characters of different background and gender. You might just find yourself with more appreciation of someone else's point of view.[/quote']

 

Ugh. I have zero interest in playing in order to see another viewpoint, and even less in trying to explore some side of myself. Introspective, I ain't. I play because I like the character and the setting. The one time I tried something completely different, it was a failure. Because I couldn't understand that person, I couldn't roleplay the character at all. I'm not an actor - they have to have some part of me in them, or it isn't worth the effort. A really good scenario AND and really good GM might be able to make me see another viewpoint that I had not considered, but I've never run into this happening. I know I'm not a good enough GM to do it for others.

[Vondy]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

And I propose another challenge for all of us. It's perfectly natural of course that we should play characters we identify or that act as wish fulfillment vehicles for us' date=' but I think there is a lot to be gained by breaking out of that comfort zone and trying characters of different background and gender. You might just find yourself with more appreciation of someone else's point of view.[/quote']

 

I am not an actor. I am not a psychologist. I am not lacking empathy in my day to day interactions. I engage in "if I were in their shoes" exercises as a matter of course. When I game I'm gaming to have fun. Its pure escapism. Nothing more. Nothing less. Sometimes I play

characters like me. Sometimes I don't. Its whim and whimsy, not politics.

[Vondy]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

No' date=' but they are the exception and not the rule. An Alpha Geek, usually means top Geek, not Alpha male that happens to be a geek.[/quote']

 

We live in an era where geeks make good money and marry well. And, where hobbies like computer gaming, or even RPGs, don't automatically make you a social outcast. I'm not entirely sure the old alpha male stereotype holds the central social sway many over-35 geeks assume it does. I know numerous gamers who played sports, and continue to be involved in an athletic activity (cycling, rock climbing, and scuba diving are popular), and who married handsome non-gamer ladies.

[Greywind]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

[h=1]Swaziland bans miniskirts, low-rise jeans to deter rape[/h]

 

The tiny African nation of Swaziland has enacted a new law aimed at preventing rape: make it illegal for women to wear miniskirts, low-rise jeans and midriff-bearing tops. Police spokeswoman Wendy Hleta reported that she had read on "social networks" that men and women "have a tendency of undressing people with their eyes" — something which becomes even easier when the clothes are revealing. Women in violation will be arrested, but it was unclear what punishment breaking this law carries. Hleta added that women who wore revealing clothes were ultimately responsible for rapes committed against them. So much for progress

 

http://now.msn.com/swaziland-bans-miniskirts-revealing-clothes-saying-they-lead-to-rape

[input.jack]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Well....thats the opposite of a good idea. :/