Jump to content

[New Product] Champions Complete


Jason S.Walters
 Share

Recommended Posts

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Hi Derek!

 

I'm so excited to see this product in print! I just wanted to express that directly to you! I'm as interested in the accessibility of the writing and the overall tone of the book, as I am about having a more concise and streamlined set of rules. The style and tone of your posts alone suggest that I'm going to be a very happy customer! :-) Thanks for all the hard work, and for taking time to answer questions.

 

Cheers!

 

Dragonfly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Hi Derek!

 

I'm so excited to see this product in print! I just wanted to express that directly to you! I'm as interested in the accessibility of the writing and the overall tone of the book, as I am about having a more concise and streamlined set of rules. The style and tone of your posts alone suggest that I'm going to be a very happy customer! :-) Thanks for all the hard work, and for taking time to answer questions.

 

Cheers!

 

Dragonfly

 

You're more than welcome! I can't wait for the book to come out, and I hope everyone digs it. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Regarding art, I went on Sam's site tolook at his work and was pleasantly surprised. There are pieces of art that I really like in various HERO books and cover that I didn't even realised it was his. My expectations are very high now!

 

Regarding B&W interior, one super book that I believe is very well executed in that regard and feels like a four color supplement is GURPS Super 3rd (not 4th). I have the 3rd or 4th printing which got a major art overhaul compared to the previous printings so be careful.

 

Proof positive of the subjectiveness of art. :) I thought the art in Supers was competent. That's it.

 

(If by third or fourth printing, you mean the guy who drew the book after Doug Shuler, then that's who I'm referring to.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

I have to agree with this. But they'd have had to find a different name for the super game than just "Champions." maybe "Comic Book Champions."

 

edit: In any case, this is fruitless speculation; the decision was made long ago.

 

 

 

"Hero System is not a religion. It gives you the tools to build a religion." Linda Older.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary promises that if you build it, they will come

 

If I were going to keep the Champions Name (Which I think is the Brand to run with to be Honest), the Follow up Genre books would run in the like format.. Champions The Super Role Playing Game. Now swap Super for Fantasy, or Pulp, or SF or a small and harmless looking rubber ducky etc etc ... You have "Champions" in all those genres, but in the end, the classic Comic Book of today, or Comic Team like the Avengers or the JLA/JSA, has components of EVERY other Genre there is, from Sword Swinging Knights to Alien Policemen armed with the Ultimate Weapon, all at the same time in the same place. Hence, the Super RPG.

 

~Rex

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

If I were going to keep the Champions Name (Which I think is the Brand to run with to be Honest)' date=' the Follow up Genre books would run in the like format.. Champions The Super Role Playing Game. Now swap Super for Fantasy, or Pulp, or SF or a small and harmless looking rubber ducky etc etc ... You have "Champions" in all those genres, but in the end, the classic Comic Book of today, or Comic Team like the Avengers or the JLA/JSA, has components of EVERY other Genre there is, from Sword Swinging Knights to Alien Policemen armed with the Ultimate Weapon, all at the same time in the same place. Hence, the Super RPG.[/quote']

 

There is no such thing as a harmless-looking rubber ducky. :)

 

I hope personally that CC does well enough that it will continue to drive sales of Fantasy Hero and Star Hero and that some of the back-burner books can be written and released as PDF/POD releases. I really think that is the wave of the future for most fringe RPG publications. CC is hardly fringe so that model wouldn't work for it, but I take some small comfort in knowing that the PDFs of the genre books will still be sold, by Hero and by Drive-Thru, long after the print run is exhausted. It might even be possible to arrange a POD edition (as POD technology improves) with the artwork converted to grayscale for people who know they are going to want a print copy (and it would still be cheaper than printing the books yourself in full color).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Just to toss in my two nickels here again, I hope the first thing HG produces is some PDF adventures to support Champs Complete. Any new player would like to have something to *do* with their new game, I'd guess, so a couple of extra products would help then and hopefully make a few bucks for HG.

 

Thinking about this more: since CC now omits a lot of examples and advice, I think perhaps it might be useful to make initial PDF adventures like these pedagogical. That is add some of the advice on running games and building characters that was omitted from CC into a few initial PDF adventures. Don't go over board; the idea is to pace the information and not flood them with details. Folks who demo games would know more than me how to do that, but starting out with useful bits of advice, taken in smaller doses, might be truly appreciated by new customers and older returning customers alike.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Proof positive of the subjectiveness of art. :) I thought the art in Supers was competent. That's it.

 

(If by third or fourth printing, you mean the guy who drew the book after Doug Shuler, then that's who I'm referring to.)

 

Yes, this is want I mean (I dislike Shuler's style). As for the art, we are in agreement, it was competent. What I am saying is that the whole look "feels" like a super supplement. The art is good enough and represents the genre well enough,the layout and borders enhance the four color feel and the one pager at the start of every chapters (including the full page drawing and colorful title) makes the book fun. So it is less a matter of "wow! the art is great!".

 

Actually, GURPS Supers 4th has some of the same art but it as less of it, no catchy chapter titles or full page drawing at the start of said chapters and the layout and borders don't really enhance the look. The book just feel bland.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Yes, this is want I mean (I dislike Shuler's style). As for the art, we are in agreement, it was competent. What I am saying is that the whole look "feels" like a super supplement. The art is good enough and represents the genre well enough,the layout and borders enhance the four color feel and the one pager at the start of every chapters (including the full page drawing and colorful title) makes the book fun. So it is less a matter of "wow! the art is great!".

 

Actually, GURPS Supers 4th has some of the same art but it as less of it, no catchy chapter titles or full page drawing at the start of said chapters and the layout and borders don't really enhance the look. The book just feel bland.

 

Totally agree. :D Especially the bit about the opening chapter art. That did look nice and it did give a nice "pulse pounding" feel, suggestive of superhero art. However, if I had a preference, I like the art from M&M* or the Champions Genre book. Since HG already paid for it, they could always recycle it.

 

*That's 2e and later. I've never understood the hype surrounding the "wonderful" 1st edition art. Like I said: It's subjective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Just to toss in my two nickels here again, I hope the first thing HG produces is some PDF adventures to support Champs Complete. Any new player would like to have something to *do* with their new game, I'd guess, so a couple of extra products would help then and hopefully make a few bucks for HG.

 

Thinking about this more: since CC now omits a lot of examples and advice, I think perhaps it might be useful to make initial PDF adventures like these pedagogical. That is add some of the advice on running games and building characters that was omitted from CC into a few initial PDF adventures. Don't go over board; the idea is to pace the information and not flood them with details. Folks who demo games would know more than me how to do that, but starting out with useful bits of advice, taken in smaller doses, might be truly appreciated by new customers and older returning customers alike.

 

I'd like to point out that I write Superhero adventures for Blackwyrm Games and work pretty hard at it. :) Feel free to check them out if you haven't already. There will be a new one called Imaginary Friends coming soon. But it is likely you guys will have to kickstart it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

I *should* check out your stuff at Blackwyrm Games! And I will too, but I'm thinking of adventures and other products that need to be marketed along with the main product.

 

When I go to the front page of Hero Games, it's basically a blog entry. When I go to Amazon.com, there's a huge picture of something to buy right in the middle of the screen. One of those two makes it easier for me to buy stuff.

 

Balabanto: what do you think of making some of the new Champions adventures pedagogical or teaching how to start? Good idea? Bad idea? Wouldn't sell worth a darn?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

The Module returns.... Honestly, Modules are a good thing. Even if folks didn't want to "Run" The module, there was always plenty of stuff in them, Maps and what not, characters, all done and ready to swipe. Such a thing would be a good thing.

 

~Rex

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

The Module returns.... Honestly' date=' Modules are a good thing. Even if folks didn't want to "Run" The module, there was always plenty of stuff in them, Maps and what not, characters, all done and ready to swipe. Such a thing would be a good thing.[/quote']

 

They should also be priced cheaply enough to be an impulse purchase. $10 is good, but $5 would probably be better. Of course, getting stuff down to the lower price point would be hard. (War of Worldcraft​, as a data point, was $10.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

I'm curious how successful Balabanto's adventure books have been in terms of sales, because historically, a major obstacle to doing adventure books was that they only sell to a fraction of the game's player base (since, obviously, most people don't buy an adventure they're going to play through themselves). So I assume someone would need to solve that conundrum in order to make adventures feasible, at least in print. I'd suggest they might be more feasible as PDFs, but... (eyes RexMundi nervously... :winkgrin: I keed, I keed...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Modules are a GM's purchase and very few systems have enough GMs out there to make a module release a success. You can loss leader it to attract interest, you can keep churning out modules as a low cost way to keep brand awareness high and secure shelf space, they are a great trial run for talent but they are never a revenue stream. They are nearly always one-and-done, disposable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Maybe someone could do modules as part of a larger sourcebook? For example' date=' if HG ever comes out with a Viper 6e book, it could include an updated version of the Viper's nest adventure.[/quote']

 

That would be a nice added bonus if it didn't increase the cost of the product, but I think you'd have to be careful of people feeling like they were being "forced" to pay extra for material they'd only use once (if at all). :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

This is great news! I've been waiting for a "concise" version of the rules for many years now, and will absolutely be buying at least one. My only regret is that it won't be ready in time for the convention games I'm running at Tacticon Labor Day weekend.

 

A few thoughts:

 

1. I like the idea of Advantages/Adders/Limitations all being grouped together alphabetically as Modifiers. But does that change the math any? I.e. - Do you still multiply Advantages first to get Active Cost, then Limitations to get to the Real Cost? Or is it a single-step process where you multiply all modifiers at once? The later seems simpler, but would obviously be a more radical change.

 

2. Seconding previous poster's request for an ebook format. Reading 2-column pdfs on my Kindle is an exercise in frustration, but I have no idea what would be required to publish an additional format.

 

3. If Champions Complete does well, I'd still love to see a "generic" version published someday. But one victory at a time!

 

Can't wait!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

I would totally back a "My First Champions" module, and would love to see some modules come out in the same fashion as the old 3rd ed ones (even a few updated ones would be cool). That said, a module/sourcebook style of book would rock! Say, like, a Viper module that also gives an introduction to the villain group, or something like Deathstroke even ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

1. I like the idea of Advantages/Adders/Limitations all being grouped together alphabetically as Modifiers. But does that change the math any? I.e. - Do you still multiply Advantages first to get Active Cost' date=' then Limitations to get to the Real Cost?[/quote']

 

No, it doesn't change the math; yes, you still apply Adders first, then Advantages, then Limitations. :)

 

2. Seconding previous poster's request for an ebook format. Reading 2-column pdfs on my Kindle is an exercise in frustration' date=' but I have no idea what would be required to publish an additional format.[/quote']

 

At one time, tables were problematic for ereader formats; I don't know to what extent they still are (I don't have an ebook reader myself), but there are a fair number of things in the rules that pretty much have to be in tables. Though I'm sure there would be interest in possibly doing an ebook version if it's technologically and financially feasible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...