Andrew_A Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I vaguely remember a book like that. If would be fun to allow new players to have a chioice between running a 300-point superhero or a team of 150-point heroic-level characters that' date=' together were a match for a superhero. I still think it's a good concept, but I lost the book years ago.[/quote'] Do you mean this book? Get it while you can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Right now, I can't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I'm curious how successful Balabanto's adventure books have been in terms of sales' date=' because historically, a major obstacle to doing adventure books was that they only sell to a fraction of the game's player base[/quote'] Without giving away specific numbers, the products have been successful enough for the author and BlackWyrm that we've kept doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete The just announced Monster Hunter International book might fit this niche very well as the books have mostly agent level heroes combating all sorts of horrors with limited super powered help and radiation accidents to boost your power or give you a whole new set There was a 3rd edition Champions project (well' date=' sort of) called [i']Super Agents[/i], all about the rank-and-file of organizations like UNTIL. In most Champions campaigns superheroes hold the spotlight while UNTIL agents labor in the background. Super Agents was a campaign book that reverse that by making the non-super-powered agents the stars and superheroes an occasional force that sometimes help and sometimes get in the way. It was interesting idea, but I don't recall whether it really caught on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Okay, only read about 1/4 of this thread so I hope I am not repeatign any questions: Overall it sounds like an interesting idea to allow easier access to the core genre of HERO. I also have to say that' date=' whether or not it's justified to feel this way, the fact that Hero Games doesn't appear to be financing this book via the Kickstarter model makes me hopeful that the company has more life in it than some of us thought. [/quote'] Indeed. What about if a few closely-related or nearly-identical game elements are combined into one? For example' date=' [i']Champions Complete[/i] combines Radio Perception, Radio Perception/Transmission, and High Range Radio Perception into a single Enhanced Sense simply called Radio Perception, with a three-tiered pricing structure that's the same as the three cost separately before. Is that a rule change, or just re-arranging the presentation? I would certainly consider it a rules change. I recently though of how I would describing HERO vs D&D to a programmer. My metaphor would be something around: "D&D and most other RPG's are like a tool for Skript Kiddies or a Level Editor for a game. HERO is C." You take forever to built something and it is easy to make horrible mistakes that crash your computer or create big exploits. But you also can built stuff very simple and efficiently and are not limited in any way. Now this is certainly a step towards Level Editor, as it takes away the information behind the pricing. I totally understand why you did it for this book, but I hope that for 7E there will be a book similar to 6E1 and 6E2 as well as a 7E Champions Complete. Animal Handler' date=' Forgery, Gambling, Navigation, Survival and Weaponsmith are presented as normal 3-point Skills instead of broken into categories. The [b']concept[/b] of breaking Skills down into categories if you want more detail is in the book, but none of the Skills are presented that way by default. Good idea. I think those skills were way to split up/expensive for the effect as written. Even for most heroic games. Classes Of Minds has been removed as a concept. Mental Powers now work universally by default' date=' and if you want them to apply to a limited type of target, you take a Limitation.[/quote'] I tended towards considering every being as having the human (or rather "standart") mind class anyway - Humans, Androids, Kryptionians, Martians, Animals, Demons etc. - unless noted differently. Machine Mind Class is the only one I consider relevant. Yes' date=' they're in there. And really, nothing is specifically flagged as "optional." Items are flagged with the Caution Sign and Stop Sign icons (as they have been since 4E), and [i']Champions Complete[/i] introduces two icons as well: Superheroic and Heroic. These quickly highlight mechanics more appropriate for one or the other style of campaign. This is a very good idea. The one genres optional, is the others default. Questions: 1. Is there an official short name to refer to the book/the rules version? For 5th Edition we have 5E, 5ER and the version in the Character Creation Handbook. And while the rules changes are small, they are there. Especially for mentalists the changes are big (that MC without limitations affects you, your dog and your toaster - not only one of them). Having a clear, unambigious name for the rules-version is important, at least for me. So what would it be, 6ECC? 6CC? 6C? 2. What existing books are covered/what books would make this book superflous? From what I heard I think: 6E1, 6E2 and Champions 6E have everything that is covered in this book and then some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete 1. Is there an official short name to refer to the book/the rules version? No, but the one that seems to be catching on is just "CC". 2. What existing books are covered/what books would make this book superflous? From what I heard I think: 6E1, 6E2 and Champions 6E have everything that is covered in this book and then some. Well... Yes and no. There are a couple of small tidbits in CC that I pulled in from other books -- one Martial Maneuver from HERO System Martial Arts, and a brief concept from HERO System Skills (the aforementioned breaking Skills down into categories) -- and some of the example villains are from Champions Villains Volume III. But there are also some concepts presented differently in this book. For example, superhero character archetypes are presented a bit differently than they were in Champions 6E. (See this post for more info.) But that aside, yes... you're essentially correct. Although those books don't always cover things the same way CC does, those books are the ones that, taken together, cover the same ground as CC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete There are a couple of small tidbits in CC that I pulled in from other books -- one Martial Maneuver from HERO System Martial Arts' date=' and a brief concept from HERO System Skills (the aforementioned breaking Skills down into categories) -- and some of the example villains are from Champions Villains Volume III. But there are also some concepts presented differently in this book. For example, superhero character archetypes are presented a bit differently than they were in Champions 6E. (See this post for more info.) But that aside, yes... you're essentially correct. Although those books don't always cover things the same way CC does, those books are the ones that, taken together, cover the same ground as CC. Putting it in one volume has great advantages, especially for new players coming in from the MMO or from other supers games. And there will still be a place for the core rules and all the supporting books -- special rules, sources of ideas, examples of how to build different kinds of effects. I'm not going to erase my 6E PDFs just because I'll be getting CC. And there's no reason for Hero to stop selling them either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Putting it in one volume has great advantages' date=' especially for new players coming in from the MMO or from other supers games. And there will still be a place for the core rules and all the supporting books -- special rules, sources of ideas, examples of how to build different kinds of effects. I'm not going to erase my 6E PDFs just because I'll be getting CC. And there's no reason for Hero to stop selling them either.[/quote'] Nor do they plan to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Arg...this wait is killing me...or at least trying to. Let me see...right now it is a 6d6 NND attack (Defence is being able to wait for Champions Compleat). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I'm probably being premature for asking this, but has any thought been given to releasing the material edited out of CC in another form, much like some material left out of 6e1 and 2 was in the APG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I'm probably being premature for asking this' date=' but has any thought been given to releasing the material edited out of CC in another form, much like some material left out of 6e1 and 2 was in the APG?[/quote'] Well, of course all the excised material will still be available in the same sources that contained it before CC: 6E1, 6E2, and Champions 6E, albeit only direct from Hero Games (until printed copies run out) or in PDF format. I can't speak for the company, but I'd assume that the likelihood of it showing up in different printed book form would probably depend on the success of CC and the later demand for the excised material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I'm probably being premature for asking this' date=' but has any thought been given to releasing the material edited out of CC in another form, much like some material left out of 6e1 and 2 was in the APG?[/quote'] By definition that material would be in 6e1, 6e2 and Champions Genre book. I am not sure what you would get that you wouldn't get in the books that were edited down into CC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Rules for Hero: Impressive New Opus Lucius Alexander How does a palindromedary spell RHINO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Arg...this wait is killing me...or at least trying to. Let me see...right now it is a 6d6 NND attack (Defence is being able to wait for Champions Compleat). If it's killing you, it probably needs the Does Body advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete If it's killing you' date=' it probably needs the Does Body advantage.[/quote'] Not nesasary. It could be like a choak hold, and Does Body only when there is no more Stun to take away. A +0 Advantage to No Normal Defence, by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Not nesasary. It could be like a choak hold' date=' and Does Body [i']only[/i] when there is no more Stun to take away. A +0 Advantage to No Normal Defence, by the way.It is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete It is? Well, not officialy it is. But it is how Choke Holds work, so I give an optinal +0 Advantage on all 'Does BODY When STUN Is Zero Or Less' NND Attacks and call it 'Deadly'. But that is me. It is also called 'As A GM Option, NND Attacks Can Do BODY Damage Without Does Body Advantage, Only When Stun Is Zero Or Below' rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacie.Winters Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I read about this books imminent release on RPG.net and I'm excited for it. It's gotten me juiced and excited to come back to Hero System and now I'm going to be collecting many of the 6e books. So, Hello to all of you. I hope this book comes out soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Excellent! Welcome (back), Stacie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacie.Winters Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Excellent! Welcome (back)' date=' Stacie! [/quote'] Awww Thank you. I feel welcomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete sorry could not read all 24 pages, but is there a date yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTaber Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Thinking this will be the new cover... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahuna's bro Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete nice art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I think this one looks a little more like The Champions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I think this one looks a little more like The Champions Well, that's because it's the cover to *my* book, Champions: Live Action. And yes, it's awesome and no, Champions can't have it. Nyaahh! dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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