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[New Product] Champions Complete


Jason S.Walters
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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Were Heroic Action Points [HAP] in the 6th Edition core rules' date=' or are they something new? They look like something newey in an otherwise confidently old-school game.[/quote']

 

if memory serves they were introdued in 5th ED so as to explain the non powered pulp HERO characters abilites

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

All i can say is that while I loved all the tables in the back (much easier to use there than in the middle of the book in 6e) why no Modifier table? It will be really missed :(

 

I started putting one together at one point, and realized it would never make the cut for the final book. Let me walk through why I say that...

 

Take a look at the Powers Summary Table (PST) on pages 231-232. A Power Modifiers Summary Table (PMST) would need five columns: Modifier (i.e., the name), Applies To (without which the summary table would be basically useless), Value, Description, and Page.

 

First consider that there are probably an average of about three Power-specific Power Modifiers per Power (some have fewer than three, some have many more). So right off the bat, our hypothetical PMST is going to be three times longer than the PST, just to include the Power-specific Modifiers. Then consider that the Power Modifiers from the Power Modifiers section outnumber the Powers more than two-to-one. So now we're up to a PMST well over five times longer than the PST. That would take up around eight pages in the book, even if each item in the PMST would be about the same number of lines on the page as each item in the PST.

 

But each item in the PMST wouldn't take up about the same number of lines on the page as the items in the PST. The PMST would require many more two-line entries than the PST does. For example, two of the Power names are long enough that they require their entry to take up two lines in the table (Extra-Dimensional Movement and Hand-To-Hand Attack), while there are dozens of Power Modifiers with longer names than either of those, and every one of those entries would almost certainly take up two lines as well. Many entries for the Applies To column would also be wide enough to force their line item to take up two lines.

 

Rather than taking up eight pages, it would likely be closer to ten pages (or more). I just don't think a PMST would be useful enough to justify cutting ten+ pages worth of material (the size of the entire Characteristics section) from elsewhere in the book. For instance, while the Value column of a PMST wouldn't be any wider than the Cost column of the PST, it would likely be less useful (because it would have to simply say "Varies" much more often than the PST has to).

 

So there's a pretty solid practical reason why it couldn't be in the book: it would just be too long. But do folks think it would useful as a downloadable extra? If it isn't in the book to refer to alongside the other Summary Tables, is it worthwhile at all? I'm personally inclined to say no, but I'm curious to hear how people think they might use it. Maybe it would be useful for a purpose I'm not thinking of. :)

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

But do folks think it would useful as a downloadable extra? If it isn't in the book to refer to alongside the other Summary Tables' date=' is it worthwhile at all? I'm personally inclined to say no, but I'm curious to hear how people think they might use it. Maybe it would be useful for a purpose I'm not thinking of. :)[/quote']

 

Ever thought about putting thoes 10 pages as a free download for thoes who want it (the PMST' date=' that is)?[/quote']

 

Yes. :)

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Well, I am almost finished with the update to my character creation cheat sheet which does basically that, so I wouldn't need one, but even a list of modifiers like on (6e1 317) and (6e1 366) would have been nice, just as a checklist for quick reference when building a power to remind yourself of any modifiers you might want to add. Of course most of the value is lost as its not in the book, so you loose the "all in one place" value, but in the end its really just a minor nitpick. It was very considerate of you (and informative :) ) to tell us why the decision was made as it was. Please don't take it as a major gripe about your excellent work :) I am seriously thinking about buying a hardcopy as its much easier to tote around and reference than the Core books (and i can leave them on my Kindle if I need more detail than CC provides.)

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

If you really want to make sure nothing from an existing character differs in any way from what's in CC' date=' differences that could affect what appears on character sheets include:[/quote']

 

I just noticed that the ability to increase the maximum effect of a beneficial Adjustment Power is back, as opposed to "buy more dice of effect" in 6E.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

So does this mean we will get an update to Hero Designer ?

 

I just noticed that the ability to increase the maximum effect of a beneficial Adjustment Power is back' date=' as opposed to "buy more dice of effect" in 6E.[/quote']
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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Humm...can I download the PDF to a flash drive instead of a hard drive (the MPL frounds on people downloading stuff to there computer drives)?

 

It's a PDF. It's a regular file. You put it wherever you like. I have a copy of my PDFs in my Documents folder, a back up on a portable hard drive, another backup on a flash drive, and a third back up on my Box.com account.

 

It's just a regular file.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

I started putting one together at one point, and realized it would never make the cut for the final book. Let me walk through why I say that...

 

Take a look at the Powers Summary Table (PST) on pages 231-232. A Power Modifiers Summary Table (PMST) would need five columns: Modifier (i.e., the name), Applies To (without which the summary table would be basically useless), Value, Description, and Page.

 

First consider that there are probably an average of about three Power-specific Power Modifiers per Power (some have fewer than three, some have many more). So right off the bat, our hypothetical PMST is going to be three times longer than the PST, just to include the Power-specific Modifiers. Then consider that the Power Modifiers from the Power Modifiers section outnumber the Powers more than two-to-one. So now we're up to a PMST well over five times longer than the PST. That would take up around eight pages in the book, even if each item in the PMST would be about the same number of lines on the page as each item in the PST.

 

But each item in the PMST wouldn't take up about the same number of lines on the page as the items in the PST. The PMST would require many more two-line entries than the PST does. For example, two of the Power names are long enough that they require their entry to take up two lines in the table (Extra-Dimensional Movement and Hand-To-Hand Attack), while there are dozens of Power Modifiers with longer names than either of those, and every one of those entries would almost certainly take up two lines as well. Many entries for the Applies To column would also be wide enough to force their line item to take up two lines.

 

Rather than taking up eight pages, it would likely be closer to ten pages (or more). I just don't think a PMST would be useful enough to justify cutting ten+ pages worth of material (the size of the entire Characteristics section) from elsewhere in the book. For instance, while the Value column of a PMST wouldn't be any wider than the Cost column of the PST, it would likely be less useful (because it would have to simply say "Varies" much more often than the PST has to).

 

So there's a pretty solid practical reason why it couldn't be in the book: it would just be too long. But do folks think it would useful as a downloadable extra? If it isn't in the book to refer to alongside the other Summary Tables, is it worthwhile at all? I'm personally inclined to say no, but I'm curious to hear how people think they might use it. Maybe it would be useful for a purpose I'm not thinking of. :)

 

Bundle it. Insert for the GM screen that needs to be made. Toss in some old school character sheets with the character outlines circa the good old days. Goes with the theme.

 

~Rex

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Humm...can I download the PDF to a flash drive instead of a hard drive (the MPL frounds on people downloading stuff to there computer drives)?

 

IF you have the flash drive properly connected to the PC it will work exactly like any other drive in terms of downloading and storing data. Of course, you'll have to talk to your library staff about the permissibility of using your own flash drives (which are cheaper than dirt) on their systems because of the security and data safety risks involved (people frequently carry files with virii on them around with them without knowing it).

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

I'm kinda confused. Does Steriaca not have internet access? Is he downloading at a public library?

 

BINGO! The only real computer I can use is the public libary one. It is OK to download to flash, as thay sell them (at $11 per drive). I bought one of theres. The only other 'computer' I have is the Nintendo DSi, and, well, just try downloading anything from a web page onto the SD card other than programs from the official Nintendo Shop, and pics using the built in camra app.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

MPL = Milwaukee Public Library

 

I used to be the one to stop people like him from downloading to the hard drive at the library. :)

 

And I understand the concern, and agree with pruttm's old job. It is the difrence between haveing a real computer to use, or not being able to use ANYTHING at all.

 

But enought about this. Let's get back to the show (and, no, I don't think I know pruttm personly...unless he was one of the old UWM gamers).

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

OK, sorry about that. I see xPL and I think "x Public License." I thought you were talking about legal issues. Laptops (and e-readers) are cheap, but I understand that even $80 for an e-reader isn't in many folks' budgets.

 

I think the flash drive is a good idea, even though I fully expect the PDF to still be there when you do get a computer. Consider uploading to a free storage account like Box.com or DropBox.com. Flash drives are kinda easy to loose. As long as you have access to a given email account, you can reset a password online and still have access to any stored file. As a backup solution, I think cloud storage is currently the way to go.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

What perfect timing!

 

I played Champions years ago, from 1st edition through 4th, but stopped when my long time group got busy with other things (jobs, wives, kids... the usual suspects). I picked up the 5th edition of the HERO rules when I found them on sale a few years back, but could never justify spending the money on 6th edition when I knew I wasn't going to play it.

 

So I was just thinking about Champions again and started browsing the internet and hit on Champions Complete. This is exactly the type of book I am interested in. We played the heck out of 4th edition of Champions (which I just learned through this thread is referred to as the Big Blue Book) and I think CC will be the spiritual heir.

 

I have liked the page to all of my old gaming friends and who knows? Maybe we will actually be able to get a game together some time.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

I played Champions years ago, from 1st edition through 4th, but stopped when my long time group got busy with other things (jobs, wives, kids... the usual suspects). I picked up the 5th edition of the HERO rules when I found them on sale a few years back, but could never justify spending the money on 6th edition when I knew I wasn't going to play it.

 

So I was just thinking about Champions again and started browsing the internet and hit on Champions Complete. This is exactly the type of book I am interested in.

 

Excellent! Welcome back! :)

 

We played the heck out of 4th edition of Champions (which I just learned through this thread is referred to as the Big Blue Book) and I think CC will be the spiritual heir.

 

I hope so! That's certainly what I was shooting for. :hex:

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