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[New Product] Champions Complete


Jason S.Walters
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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

And I have Champions Complete in hardcopy. I've only had a chance to literally flip through it, but my first impression is that the layout is very clean, very nicely done; it looks better than I was expecting from the PDF. Overall it's a nice looking book and should be attractive to customers browsing through a store's shelves. Good job to everyone involved!

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Dammit! Just got off the Horn with my FLGS. They are having "Problems" getting this book and not including me and the Dozen or so copies I am buying ( plus extras for some more overseas folks) they have LOTS of interest and inquires. I want to fix this issue.

 

~Rex...is not amused.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

So I'm curious... does the print & pdf together deal only apply from the website and IPR? What I mean is, it looks like FRPGames has the book in stock now, and I have some other stuff I wanted to pick up too. If I order the book from there, do I still get the pdf for free, or doesn't it work like that? Trying to save on shipping, but I like having the pdf on my iPad for when the book is getting passed around....

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

It's not technically an error, in that the value in CC is the intended value, and it's the same value that was in 6E1. However, the Competent Normal in 5E had 25 STUN, and you could certainly use that value instead if you wish (or any other value, for that matter; they are only "examples," after all. :))

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Every other stat either progresses or stays the same every step up the competency chart except STUN in the last step. This would logically look like a typo/error. However, notice that the Competent Normal is built on 100 points even. A few points were probably shaved off of STUN to fill in something else considered necessary without throwing off the even point total. I doubt much thought was given when copying those examples into the new book, thus the oddity remains.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Every other stat either progresses or stays the same every step up the competency chart except STUN in the last step. This would logically look like a typo/error. However' date=' notice that the Competent Normal is built on 100 points even. A few points were probably shaved off of STUN to fill in something else considered necessary without throwing off the even point total. I doubt much thought was given when copying those examples into the new book, thus the oddity remains.[/quote']

 

I don't think many CNs in a supers campaign are expected to last long in a fight. One of a superhero's major motivations is to protect them. It's not at all uncommon for a moderate Area Effect NND (like filling a room with knockout gas) to KO scores of Competent Normals. In fact, you can probably handwave most uses of STUN in these cases (or even BODY if you want to keep them alive but out of the fight).

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

I don't think many CNs in a supers campaign are expected to last long in a fight. One of a superhero's major motivations is to protect them. It's not at all uncommon for a moderate Area Effect NND (like filling a room with knockout gas) to KO scores of Competent Normals. In fact' date=' you can probably handwave most uses of STUN in these cases (or even BODY if you want to keep them alive but out of the fight).[/quote']

Okay. Not really sure what that has to do with what I said. Or with the original question as to whether or not it was a typo as it is a clear anomaly in the progression of "normal" characters. Also, while we are discussing Champions Complete, keep in mind CC is considered the new "Core book" and thus applies to every genre, not just Champions.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

5th ed. revised had a table on page 40, Characteristics Comparison Table, that listed the actual values for Weak, Challenged, Skilled, Competent, etc. STUN for Competent is listed as 28-40. That's pretty much what I'm going by.

 

The table in Champs Complete, Characteristics Benchmarks Table, is a companion to that table in 5th rev. But there's no listing of actual numbers, just word descriptions.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Too many "guidelines." At the end of the day, new people need definite answers. Put a stake in the ground. It says right in the beginning of Champs Complete that anything can be changed. If someone wants they can change around any parts they like; they'll move that stake if they need to.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Too many "guidelines." At the end of the day' date=' new people need definite answers. Put a stake in the ground. [/quote']

 

Then Competent Normals have 22 STUN. :winkgrin:

 

It says right in the beginning of Champs Complete that anything can be changed. If someone wants they can change around any parts they like; they'll move that stake if they need to.

 

Indeed. So if the lack of symmetry and progression between the "lesser" normals and the Competent Normal bothers you, feel free to make it 28, or 30, or whatever you like. :hex:

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Then Competent Normals have 22 STUN. :winkgrin:

 

True, and that's wasn't what I was addressing in that post. I was just referring to some of the equivocation answering the question. ;) I'd personally prefer that the chart continued to progress up, but it's not a big deal.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

True' date=' and that's wasn't what I was addressing in that post. I was just referring to some of the equivocation answering the question. ;)[/quote']

 

I wasn't trying to equivocate... just trying to answer to the extent I can. Is it an error in Champions Complete? No, because my intention in Champions Complete was for it to be the same as it was in 6E1, and it is. Was it an error in 6E1? Only Steve could answer that. If I were to speculate, I'd guess -- like others have -- that it was intentional, to make the cost come out to an even 100 points. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Y'know. Champions New Millenium wasn't all that bad. Okay, the Fuzion rules, as my British friends say, were pants...but the setting wasn't. It would in fact make a very cool "alternate Earth" for Champions if using 6e rules and updated in timeline to 2012.

 

Allen

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Y'know. Champions New Millenium wasn't all that bad. Okay, the Fuzion rules, as my British friends say, were pants...but the setting wasn't. It would in fact make a very cool "alternate Earth" for Champions if using 6e rules and updated in timeline to 2012.

 

Allen

 

Actually FUZION worked pretty well and had bits that should probably be integrated into Hero (ie roll High) and the slightly different way (though the math was really the same) that one rolled Offensive Skills vs Defense (kind of d20ish, but way before d20). The biggest issue was the Superheroic(champions) plug in was incomplete and missing powers and modifiers available in 4e. Also it seemed to be designed to be a replacement for the whole Hero System. Parts of the system could have been better (ie the Way Damage was dealt with).

 

CNM was also a fun world and really the first version of CU that had been that thought out. There was backlash because CNM moved hard toward a late Iron Age feel and artwork (complaints abounded for the Image style artwork for everything).

 

I have run CNM both in Fuzion and in Hero system. I find that CNM is still the most accessible version of CU ever published. The many bios written from the viewpoint of the character really helped me get a grip on the characters. Also characters that I was never really excited about in other editions, became interesting and characters that I actually used for the first time in games. I guess it helped that this was the first Superheroic game world set in my own home area (the SF Bay Area) and included real landmarks and restaurants (many that are still in business today).

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

I was most disappointed in the way the C:NM source material was organized. Relevant information about many subjects was scattered among the three books, and the lack of an index in any of the books made looking up particular subjects frustrating. The contrast with Hero books since the DOJ era is striking -- everything is much more coherent and accessible.

 

C:NM had plenty of style (whether one likes that style is a separate issue), but IMO would have benefited from tighter editorial oversight.

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