Enforcer84 Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance No apologies necessary, this was tame. I do believe the fight is long over. SA is the official use and my gestalt works fine for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance I thought we were having fun with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance I certainly was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance Yeah, but you did the first time around too, and you know how that turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance I can't help it if I have more fun than some! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance I can't help it if I have more fun than some! You're having more fun? Doubleplus ungood! Report for Mandatory Fun Reconciliation immediately! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance Now you've gone and done it. And put some pants on before you report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance Actually, the process works better without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance Nah, it's more fun to do it commando. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance At least put on these Groucho glasses and tuck this cigar in somewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance I owe the forum an apology, I did not intend to throw petrol on the embers of this war. ..... Well it saved us doing it ourselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance Never understood the argument about COM being arbitary when you have a stat like PRE, which is arbitary too. (Though it does have more of a combat mechanic than COM did) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance Never understood the argument about COM being arbitary when you have a stat like PRE' date=' which is arbitary too. (Though it does have more of a combat mechanic than COM did)[/quote'] I never understood those who claimed over and over again that COM "didn't do anything" despite the rules codifying a mechanical effect of the Characteristic, even if it was just complimentary rolls. It should have done more than that to justify having a place among the core Characteristics, but saying that it had no mechanical effect and did nothing per RAW was simply flat out lying, and people are still doing it, even earlier in this very thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance I've always used it. Sometimes it's as a modifier to someone looking at the character. "Which person is the most attractive?" does not always equate to the highest COM. It can also be impacted by the person's PRE. It also depends upon the predisposition of the character viewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance I never understood those who claimed over and over again that COM "didn't do anything" despite the rules codifying a mechanical effect of the Characteristic' date=' even if it was just complimentary rolls. It should have done more than that to justify having a place among the core Characteristics, but saying that it had no mechanical effect and did nothing per RAW was simply flat out lying, and people are still doing it, even earlier in this very thread.[/quote'] Because in 4E in earlier all is said was "may affect Skill Rolls" and never mentions complimentary rolls at all. In 5E it was stated "may allow complimentary rolls". So, for most of Hero's life it really did effectively nothing, beyond an vague "may" and even in 5E there was little guidance of when/how to use it as complimentary, upping the notch for Effectively Nothing to Maybe Something. It barely justifies its existence. (for the record, I was against it's removal until a decent actual codification was presented in SETAC.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolgroth Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance Ahhh the Great Comeliness Debate:Reborn. You want it? Add it back in. You don't want it? Leave it out. But the new "official" characters don't have it! Add it back in. Come up with a formula to get the actual number; say Base 10 +/- 5 per level of Striking Appearance (depending on beauty vs ugliness). If that one doesn't suit you, come up with one of your own. But the Hero 6E Hero Designer templates don't have it! Edit the existing template files. I'm told it's real easy. Shouldn't be too hard since they are just XML files. I've actually built a custom template or two in my time, and I have to say it is not at all hard. Frustrating as hell to sift through all the XML, find something you can use as an example (another characteristic), and then add it in. Not hard, but it does require patience. In fact..... Here you go. Sorry if this message comes off as snarky, but I have seen this debated too often and too much anger resulting to want to watch it all happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance I wasn't trying to pick up the debate. While I would have rather Steve simply better defined what COM could do, I actually like Striking Appearance and would not re-introduce COM into a 6E game. I just get tired of certain people repeating blatantly false arguments (absolutely no mechanical effect per RAW, which is simply false, at least as of 5ER). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolgroth Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance I did not mean to point the finger at you specifically. Just wanted to head off the anger parts. A good debate is healthy. I've just noticed that there has been a lot of "investment" in ideals lately. As I said, I watched the last Great COM Debate and it was not pretty. Just trying ways to avert a similar event. I apologize if my message seemed targeted at you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance I never got too deep into the debate. Steve asked for opinions while he was writing/compiling 6th. I gave mine where I had one and called it good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance Com can be used against a foe with the right PsyL, say womanizer or fear of attractive women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance Com had ill-defined effects upon the game. I wanted it saved, but given a bigger role (better-defined effects, etc.) However I have since come around to preferring Striking Appearance. It does what I expected COM to do from the first, but it's more flexible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance Com can be used against a foe with the right PsyL' date=' say womanizer or fear of attractive women.[/quote'] I have a villain that used to suffer increased STUN when he got hit by a woman. "I can't believe the skirt hit me!" Ended up going through counseling because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Miles Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance I have a villain that used to suffer increased STUN when he got hit by a woman. "I can't believe the skirt hit me!" Ended up going through counseling because of it. Bulldozer, from "Classic Enemies" was like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance Ahhh the Great Comeliness Debate:Reborn. You want it? Add it back in. You don't want it? Leave it out. But the new "official" characters don't have it! Add it back in. Come up with a formula to get the actual number; say Base 10 +/- 5 per level of Striking Appearance (depending on beauty vs ugliness). If that one doesn't suit you, come up with one of your own. But the Hero 6E Hero Designer templates don't have it! Edit the existing template files. I'm told it's real easy. Shouldn't be too hard since they are just XML files. I've actually built a custom template or two in my time, and I have to say it is not at all hard. Frustrating as hell to sift through all the XML, find something you can use as an example (another characteristic), and then add it in. Not hard, but it does require patience. In fact..... Here you go. Sorry if this message comes off as snarky, but I have seen this debated too often and too much anger resulting to want to watch it all happen again. hehe. Sorry to pester. Loved that template. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Re: Attractiveness - Comeliness Vs. Striking Appearance Com had ill-defined effects upon the game. I wanted it saved' date=' but given a bigger role (better-defined effects, etc.) However I have since come around to preferring Striking Appearance. It does what I expected COM to do from the first, but it's more flexible.[/quote'] I've had a modicum of success using both. Since there aren't negative characteristics anymore, I kept SA for that. I use COM as a 1:1 cost. 3 pts of Com gets you 1 level of striking appearance. You want someone prettier? Go COM 14 they both have the same bonus for skills/pre attacks but one is a bit better looking. Easy no? No. The problem is the other direction. Striking Appearance is more viable because I don't like giving bonuses for a stat you sell back. Ie a 7 COM doesn't get you bonuses. You'd have to buy Striking. But Enforcer, you say, they're still selling back the characteristic and the 3 pts is a wash. And you're right. So I fixed this by making the stat be non refundable. You get 10 for free but you can't sell back for points. In the end it's more complicated and I know most people would rather go with SA than my band-aid. But the few people who I played with were cool with it. And I got to use the cool 6e w/COM Template that RJCurrie made me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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