Fantasy Race Bloat?

[Portland Barbie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I see those as a player issue (in the case of the Drow) and a balance issue (in the case of the Half-Ogre)' date=' neither is a setting issue.[/quote']

 

The issue may have been caused by the players, but ultimately it was a GM issue. He said it was an all orc campaign, and other than those two players, everyone came to the table expecting such. Also, the GM let the group dynamic dissolve to what it became, because he failed to step in when the drow player started telling the other players how to play their characters. I'll be the first to let petty character issues continue, as long as it doesn't disrupt the game, and all the players are enjoying the in-character antagonism, but this example was beyond an in-character thing. Plus it does seem that the drow player was playing the drow simply for it's perceived ooc benefits. And, as it's been said, this is where the problem of race/species/culture options becomes an issue. Yes, there is a gray area here, since all players choose a race because of the perceived benefits it contains, be it rules, abilities, shock value, etc., but when the race's perceived benefits become a focus of the character, then it becomes an issue (imo).

 

The same goes for the half-ogre. It seems that it was chosen for it's min/max capacity and not because of it's uniqueness (this goes for the drow as well). The GM, being a first time GM, possibly didn't realize the consequences of allowing the race, and as a result it unbalanced things. This is when the GM should have taken the player aside and explained things to him, and tried to come up with a compromise (the Savage Species book for 3.X gives balancing options for many different races, and could have been a good starting point). Yes, I know that this is being said from an experienced point of view, and many new GMs might not be comfortable with this option, and even some experienced ones might have issues.

 

And there's always the option that the player would refuse, and eventually cause more issues than before, but from my experience, these are exceptions, and not the rule.

 

The other players could have done the same thing, if they were so inclined, and spoke with the GM, and come up with an option that everyone could be satisfied with.

 

I will admit that the example was more of an issue with GM experience than with racial options, but ultimately, it resulted in in-game problems, which could have been prevented by sticking to the original statement of an "all orc campaign."

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Not really. If the first player had played a pushy, bossy orc, and the second player had played a mechanically overpowered orc, you would have had the exact same problems.

[Old Man]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Not really. If the first player had played a pushy' date=' bossy orc, and the second player had played a mechanically overpowered orc, you would have had the exact same problems.[/quote']

 

Not exactly. If I come to the game expecting an all-orc campaign and people show up playing drows and ogres and Vulcans and clowns, it would still detract from my enjoyment of the game even if they were the best roleplayers on Earth.

[Portland Barbie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Not exactly. If I come to the game expecting an all-orc campaign and people show up playing drows and ogres and Vulcans and clowns' date=' it would still detract from my enjoyment of the game even if they were the best roleplayers on Earth.[/quote']

 

Seconded

[Markdoc]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Not really. If the first player had played a pushy' date=' bossy orc, and the second player had played a mechanically overpowered orc, you would have had the exact same problems.[/quote']

 

While I appreciate your point - and agree 90% with it - there are two issues here which fill that last 10%. The first is that of preconception: that "I'm a race X, therefore I should be be able to .../ you should ..." That attitude was specifically named with regard to the Drow PC in the prior post, and lord knows, I've bumped up against it a few times. The second is game mechanics. In D&D (which it appears this game was) race can carry significant advantages/penalties. In our current game, I get substantial magic resistance, a passel of resistances, dark vision and a speed boost ... in exchange for a very little. There's a clear advantage to race there. You could not build a mechanically over-powered orc, the same way you could build a mechanically overpowered half-orc/half ogre in that game.

 

Now of course Hero system takes care of most of these problems (you pay for what you get, etc) but in a lot of games, they are very real issues. And the preconception issue is a b*****.

 

cheers, Mark

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Sure you can. 'Play a cleric, druid or wizard', congratulations, you're overpowered in 3e.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

As far as the expectations go, I guess that's on me. If someone were to say 'I'm running an all-X game', I'd be hesitant to play and probably find it not-horribly-interesting; if the GM relented at let in other species, I'd breathe a sigh of relief.

[Portland Barbie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Sure you can. 'Play a cleric' date=' druid or wizard', congratulations, you're overpowered in 3e. [/quote']

 

Not necessarily, it just means the GM needs to keep a close eye on your "build" to make sure you don't become overpowered. I've had many spellcasters in my D&D games that weren't overpowered, simply because the players did not know the system well enough to know how to break it, and even if they did, I know what to look for.

[Portland Barbie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

As far as the expectations go' date=' I guess that's on me. If someone were to say 'I'm running an all-X game', I'd be hesitant to play and probably find it not-horribly-interesting; if the GM relented at let in other species, I'd breathe a sigh of relief.[/quote']

 

To each their own. The best game session I ever had playing a character was in a totally human game, and with all prefabed characters . . .

 

I think that a single "class" or "race" styled game lends a unique flavor to the game, one that you cannot get when you broaden the allowances.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

To each their own. The best game session I ever had playing a character was in a totally human game, and with all prefabed characters . . .

 

I think that a single "class" or "race" styled game lends a unique flavor to the game, one that you cannot get when you broaden the allowances.

 

I'm sure it does, but it's not a flavor I like.

[Portland Barbie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I'm sure it does' date=' but it's not a flavor I like.[/quote']

 

Nor is it one that I prefer either. Now, if it was a limited campaign, or a one-shot, then I'd be more than willing to do it, as long as I knew that once the story was completed, it'd go back to the racial mash-up i prefer.

[Tasha]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

As far as the expectations go' date=' I guess that's on me. If someone were to say 'I'm running an all-X game', I'd be hesitant to play and probably find it not-horribly-interesting; if the GM relented at let in other species, I'd breathe a sigh of relief.[/quote']

 

The "all dwarves" game that I played in had other characters. The Main PC's were all Dwarves. All players also recieved one NPC to play (ex me, I was playing the leader of the party). Those NPCs were Mostly Dwarves, but one was a Human. The GM created a framework for each character including basic background and relationships (ie Who was related to who, who was a servant etc) The Players created the writeups for the Main PC's. The GM supplied writeups for the NPCs we played. We had complete control of what classes we choose to write the PC's up as. The GM choose D&D 3.5 to run the game with. I believe we started the Game as 3rd level characters.

 

Arcane Magic came from the Elves. The Elves had died off a long time ago. Elven Magics were considered evil.

 

We had My character the leader. Neutral good Rogue/ Ranger. (Took the Rogue for the interaction skills, they came in handy!)

My SO played her twin sister Lawful Good Paladin

We had a brawler Style Monk, who was the family's chief Servant

A cousin who was a Wizard or sorcerer

That character's brother who started play as a Light figher, but after the player left (with the writeup) was rewritten as a heavy Fighter

The third brother that was a Cleric

 

The NPC's were

2 Dwarven Handmaidens (My character's body guards. One was a Paladin? the other a Rogue)

Human mercenary Ranger (wanted to lead all of the dwarves into a trap) we co-opted him eventually though actually caring about the humans in the nearby kingdoms

a couple of other NPC's that I don't really remember.

 

It was a fun game. It's all being written up as a history of a Fantasy world that is eventually going to be published.