OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

[ghost-angel]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Nothning about OIAID mechanically requires a change in Obviousness - it's not a rule.

 

It's a reason to buy Perceivable on certain Powers - but it does not automatically change their Perceivability.

 

Now it may ome with a change the Characters Appearance, but it does not make specific powers more or less Perceivable.

 

If I buy OIAID as "werewolf form" and I change into a big wolf, my Obvious Powers are still Obvious (like RKA: Claws) but not Inobvious Powers not automatically Obvious (extra rPD/rED). I also look like a wolf - that's part of OIAID though, not the individual Powers.

 

You can, in fact, construct someone like Colossus without OIAID - if you buy Obvious on all his powers when they are Active then just Activating Powers makes it Obvious he's Superpowered - if he wants to pass for 'normal' he has to turn off his Powers, and by definition they are not seen because they are not on and they do him no good. No OIAID is required in this scenarion (in Colossus' case you can also buy his defenses Non-Persistent).

 

There's is nothing about changing appearance that requirea OIAID, for that matter. Just Activating Powers can change your appearance if that's what you wish - which nearly sidesteps the time required to change identities - Activating Powers is a 0-Phase Action. It just happens because of Special Effects.

 

Again, why you depower is still Story Driven - Colossus turns off his Armor so he can walk through the mall without attracting attention to himself (or at least, less attention than a very tall man made of metal would).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

You can' date=' in fact, construct someone like Colossus without OIAID - if you buy Obvious on all his powers when they are Active then just Activating Powers makes it Obvious he's Superpowered - if he wants to pass for 'normal' he has to turn off his Powers, and by definition they are not seen because they are not on and they do him no good. No OIAID is required in this scenarion (in Colossus' case you can also buy his defenses Non-Persistent).[/quote']

 

This is precisely how I would build him.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Should Colossus' defenses really be Non-Persistent though? I get that he reverts when knocked out, but he shouldn't go squishy just from being Stunned, should he?

[ghost-angel]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

If that's the effect you're going for then I would suggest a -0 version of Non-Persistent: Turns Off When Unconscious. Possibly worth a -1/4 (though that's the same value as Non-Persistent) if you can get KO'd easily, but I'd imagine that's rare in a Superheroic Game.

 

(I'm not going to argue the specifics of building Colossus because I don't actually care about that character, but I can offer guidance on desired outcomes Mechanically with Hero.)

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Should Colossus' defenses really be Non-Persistent though? I get that he reverts when knocked out' date=' but he shouldn't go squishy just from being Stunned, should he?[/quote']

 

With Colossus' defenses and CON when armored, I'm not certain he could ever be Stunned.

[Andrew_A]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

This is just me, but I would build Colossus with Perceivable DI and link a whole bunch of powers to it. Not that any of the preceeding makes a difference. This is Hero System. There are a hundred different ways to build the same thing. It just depends on what the GM and players will allow and how they'll implement it.

[Tasha]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Colossus

 

15 EC [Living Metal]-15 Points

15 1) STR +20, No END (+1/2)

15 2) Force Field +10 rPD +10 rED, No END (+1/2)

 

My take on Colossus' powers.

 

That ignores the rest of his Stat INcreases. I would assume that he would also have higher Con, Body, End and Stun (talking 5e here for the sake of being on the same rules page). I know that you did is rDef as forcefield due to EC restrictions. I also assume that you picture Peter's non powered form as being extremely strong (20 Str, High Body and Con). He might be better purchased as someone with Density Increase 0 End. With a bit of Armor for rDef.

 

of course you and I seem to have different Campaign Powerlevels in mind when we create characters. From what I have seen you tend to write up tight, minimalistic, lower powered characters. Which are VERY interesting from a mechanical point of view. It's refreshing to see popular characters written up in that style.

[Tasha]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

This is just me' date=' but I would build Colossus with Perceivable DI and link a whole bunch of powers to it. Not that any of the preceeding makes a difference. This is Hero System. There are a hundred different ways to build the same thing. It just depends on what the GM and players will allow and how they'll implement it.[/quote']

 

There are benefits and drawbacks to each different way a power is written up. It's up to the Player and GM to come up with a write up that satisfies the character conception and fits in with the GM's campaign both in Powerlevel and feel.

 

It's actually why I allow Players to rebuild characters when things don't "feel right" about a character (for the first few sessions after a new character is introduced). It allows me the GM to try out power builds that I am uneasy with. It also allows the Player to rebuild or eliminate powers that work differently in play than when they were concieved. Also sometimes the niche a Player had conceived that the character belonged to is different than what they really play like. ie I had a character that I thought of as a Energy projector that also had a Hand to Hand attack, in play it turned out that the Hand to Hand attack became very important and she became somewhat of a slow speedster (Moveby artist). If that wasn't the feel that I wanted for the character or it stepped on someone's schtick I would have wanted the ability to change her to fill her original niche.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Dr Banner reveals that he tried to eat a bullet while in Banner form, and The Hulk came out and spit the bullet into his hand. That means that his defenses are always working and automatically come up when any damage starts to happen. That or his subconscious manifested his Hulk ID the moment that he finished pulling the trigger.

I tend to think the latter. He knew he was in an upset, despairing state, and the part of him that is the Hulk reacted to the threat of the gun as he was tensing to pull the trigger. I suspect a sniper that Dr. Banner was unaware of could have entirely different results with a headshot.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

I tend to think the latter. He knew he was in an upset' date=' despairing state, and the part of him that is the Hulk reacted to the threat of the gun as he was tensing to pull the trigger. I suspect a sniper that Dr. Banner was unaware of could have entirely different results with a headshot.[/quote']In the comics Banner has been hit in the face by a sniper and the bullet is caught in Hulks teeth.

[sinanju]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

In the comics Banner has been hit in the face by a sniper and the bullet is caught in Hulks teeth.

 

If something as sudden and unexpected as a sniper's bullet triggers the transformation, then I think Bruce's rPD/rED are always on (i.e, it's armor or resistant defense with no SFX), but he can only access his enhanced STR (and whatnot) when he transforms.

[Greywind]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

There were some surprised SHIELD agents when Bruce exhibited some of the Hulk's strength when they were trying to bring him in.

[psyber624]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Shrug, just another case of an author changing the way a character's powers/abilities work to suit the needs of a particular story.

[Tasha]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Shrug' date=' just another case of an author changing the way a character's powers/abilities work to suit the needs of a particular story.[/quote']

 

Which is the thing that makes adapting Published Comic Characters into Hero. Once a published Hero has had more than one author, then the character's powerset starts to become a moving target. Sometimes even with the same writer that character's powers do what the writer needs them to do. That's why discussions about superhero powersets and ways to write them up can get gnarly. Even if everyone has read the comics, they might not have been reading during the same period or have seen the character in animation or Live action movie.

[massey]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Perhaps it's from watching the old Bill Bixby show as a kid, but I always pictured Banner changing into the Hulk as not a clean switch like Billy Batson/Captain Marvel. If Bruce Banner has a 10 Str and standard Hulk has a 100, then you could have a "I'm just mad enough so my eyes are turning green and the veins on my forehead are sticking out but my pants are still okay" Banner who has a 30 Str and is bulletproof. Generally I'd also think the shock of being shot or stabbed would just flip him to Hulk immediately. Even if you blew his brains out with a sniper rifle, the body would flip to Hulk and his healing powers would kick in, though that's definitely a power complication subplot that would affect the character for some time afterward.

[Christopher]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Perhaps it's from watching the old Bill Bixby show as a kid' date=' but I always pictured Banner changing into the Hulk as not a clean switch like Billy Batson/Captain Marvel. If Bruce Banner has a 10 Str and standard Hulk has a 100, then you could have a "I'm just mad enough so my eyes are turning green and the veins on my forehead are sticking out but my pants are still okay" Banner who has a 30 Str and is bulletproof. Generally I'd also think the shock of being shot or stabbed would just flip him to Hulk immediately. Even if you blew his brains out with a sniper rifle, the body would flip to Hulk and his healing powers would kick in, though that's definitely a power complication subplot that would affect the character for some time afterward.[/quote']

Something like that happend in the Hulk Live action Movie. He was supposedly healed, but tried to transform by (intentionally) falling out of a helicopter. It only worked after he impacted. But not only was the hulk healed, banner showed no sings of braindamage later.

 

But my general line to interpreting established Heroes is:

If it wasn't done more than once in a single run, don't even consider writing it up. If he had multiple runs don't consider things that didn't happen in more than one run (or even several runs) as important. They are just stuff "convenient for the plot", nothing else.

 

Example Superman:

Flight, Superstrenght, lasereyes, invulnerability and the like are pretty well established (but the level is not). Yet I only know one time where he "vibrated his molecules fast enought to get past a lightsensor undetected" - and that one was pretty draining for him.

So it is save to asume that you don't need Desolidification for a Superman writeup.

The same way I only know of one time where he flew so fast, that the time flowed backward. So I guess EDM (Past) is not nessesary either.

[Greywind]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Except they didn't show Banner impact. There's also the possibility of the adrenaline kick due to the "holy crap I'm not changing" hitting his system caused him to change.

 

And it wasn't Hulk, but Incredible Hulk in which it happened.

 

Unless you want to go with The Death of the Incredible Hulk in which it was the Hulk that fell and Banner that died.

[Christopher]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Except they didn't show Banner impact. There's also the possibility of the adrenaline kick due to the "holy crap I'm not changing" hitting his system caused him to change.

 

And it wasn't Hulk, but Incredible Hulk in which it happened.

 

Unless you want to go with The Death of the Incredible Hulk in which it was the Hulk that fell and Banner that died.

The hole that his impact makes (in the already damage street) is a LOT smaller than the hulk. In fact so much, the hulk had to punch himself out. Also between impact and hulk appereance is just enought time for a transformation

So it's save to asume he impacted as banner.

 

But like I said, this is ONE interpretation of the Hulk. A lot others propably showed "puny banner" to be mortal as anything else. And when banner dies, so does the hulk.

[Greywind]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Yeah, except that a falling human body would splatter on the street and not make much of a hole.

[Christopher]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

Yeah' date=' except that a falling human body would splatter on the street and not make much of a hole.[/quote']

Like I said Abdomination had already damage the steet. Considerably.

[Cassandra]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

With The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes Hulk being reasonably intelligence I think Banner's only advantage is his science skills.

[ghost-angel]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

With The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes Hulk being reasonably intelligence I think Banner's only advantage is his science skills.

 

And the ability to go to the local bagel shop without attracting attention or smashing the door to pieces.... You know Normal Human Stuff.

[Cassandra]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

True

[Christopher]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

With The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes Hulk being reasonably intelligence I think Banner's only advantage is his science skills.

Actually in the second Season and Ultimate Spiderman Interpretations Hulk also showed access to these skills (at least the knowledge part).

 

He propably just lacks the patience and agility to handle fragile stuff to use it.

[brionl]

Re: OIHID or Why Doesn't Billy Batson not Change Back?

 

 

But my general line to interpreting established Heroes is:

If it wasn't done more than once in a single run, don't even consider writing it up. If he had multiple runs don't consider things that didn't happen in more than one run (or even several runs) as important. They are just stuff "convenient for the plot", nothing else.

 

Example Superman:

Flight, Superstrenght, lasereyes, invulnerability and the like are pretty well established (but the level is not). Yet I only know one time where he "vibrated his molecules fast enought to get past a lightsensor undetected" - and that one was pretty draining for him.

So it is save to asume that you don't need Desolidification for a Superman writeup.

The same way I only know of one time where he flew so fast, that the time flowed backward. So I guess EDM (Past) is not nessesary either.

 

At least once in the old George Reeves Superman TV show, he vibrated his way through a wall several feet thick. And in the Legion of Super Heroes, Superboy was travelling back and forth between the "present" and the "future" fairly regularly.

 

How would you model George's trick of standing there while the thugs were shooting at him, then ducking when they threw the gun? Vulnerability to guns? Or rDef that doesn't work vs Guns? Bullets bounce off, but that darn empty pistol stings like heck!