Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

[phoenix240]

Re: Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

 

Well' date=' what do you want them to do? D/A does quite a bit on a number of Detects, and most normal senses include a "crude" Discriminatory right now. There is just a limited number of ways to allow D/A to benefit a player who doesn't have skills to go with them that don't wind up crossing over territory covered by another modifier. I would love to be able to tell you that they do provide some tangible benefit, but you really cant allow 5/10 points of modifiers to give you tons of skills for free, or to replace other modifiers. (I guess you can but I wouldn't recommend it.)[/quote']

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to be insulting.

 

Edit: The thread seems to be very volatile and I just seemed to stir it up so I'll just step out. Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

 

So what should Superman gain from having Discriminatory (Full) and Analyze in his X-Ray Vision Power in the following build?

 

What should he lose if it didn't have them?

 

Kryptonian Senses, all slots Conditional Power - Not in the presence of Kryptonite or red solar radiation (-1/4)

12 1) +5 PER with all Sense Groups (15 Active Points) 0

3 2) Infrared Perception (Sight Group) (5 Active Points); Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) 1

5 3) Microscopic ( x100) with Sight Group (10 Active Points); Concentration (0 DCV; Only to Activate; -1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) 1

5 4) Rapid ( x100) with Sight Group (10 Active Points); Concentration (0 DCV; Only to Activate; -1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) 1

2 5) Ultrasonic Perception (Hearing Group) (3 Active Points) 0

3 6) Ultraviolet Perception (Sight Group) (5 Active Points); Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) 1

 

17 7) X-Ray Vision: (Total: 35 Active Cost, 17 Real Cost) Penetrative with Sight Group (15 Active Points); Concentration (0 DCV; Only to Activate; -1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) (Real Cost: 7) plus Discriminatory with Sight Group - Can identify, distinguish, and analyze an object if the character makes a PER Roll. (10 Active Points); Linked (Penetrative; -1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) (Real Cost: 5) plus Analyze with Sight Group - Can determine an even greater range of information, with greater precision, than can a Sense with Discriminatory (10 Active Points); Linked (Penetrative; -1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) (Real Cost: 5)

 

*Note - the character can also have a limited 60 active point Clairsentience via his VPP below:

 

105 Strange Visitor... with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men: Variable Power Pool (Kryptonian), 60 base + 60 control cost, No Skill Roll Required (+1), Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1) (150 Active Points); Limited Power [Affects Pool Cost Only] - Kryptonion Powers Only (Speed, Strength, Toughness, Senses, Heat-Vision, etc..) (Real Cost Maximum=30 per slot (45 active without additional slot Limitations. Up to 60 active with additional slot Limitations. With enough additional Limitations (like Concentration, Extra Time, etc...) or Lower Active Point Abilities, 3 or more Slots can be used simultaneously.; -1/2); all slots Unified Power (-1/4), Conditional Power - Not in the presence of Kryptonite or red solar radiation (-1/4)

Notes: The default example abilites allow 2 Slots to be used Simultaneously. However, the abilties listed are only examples and not intended to be an exclusive list. Other ability constructions within the Kryptonian Powers set could be created and used if approved by the GM.

 

0 20) Super Senses: Clairsentience (Sight Group), +5 to PER Roll, Mobile Perception Point (can move up to 12m per Phase), MegaScale (1m = 1 km; VPP as 'Variable Advantage/Adder' - Megascale or Mobile Perception Point can be swapped out for other Senses like the Hearing Group as well as Advantages or Adders like varying levels of Increased Maximum Range, Analyze, Tracking, etc...; +1) (60 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -1/4), Limited Power Perception Point Always Faces Away From Character (-1/4) Real Cost: 30 200m 6

 

[phoenix240]

Re: Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

 

So what should Superman gain from having Discriminatory (Full) and Analyze in his X-Ray Vision Power in the following build?

 

What should he lose if it didn't have them?

 

If it didn't have them I'd say he'd just see rough shadows of objects without much if any detail. With them its like the material has turned to perfectly transparent glass. He could even determine colors and get an impression of how dense that various materials he's looking at are. Better resolution and detail than even a modern medical X-ray.

[psyber624]

Re: Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

 

Honestly it doesn't change anything. That is really not a good power construct for X-Ray Vision because his X-Ray Vision is really just Fully Penetrative for Normal Sight. Adding Discriminatory and Analyze to it would mean that he can see BETTER while looking through something than he can normally, which I have never seen to be true, but I guess you can tack them on if you want to.

 

Penetrative, by itself, allows him to see through objects with the same level of vision as he has while not looking through objects. At most he might take some form of Ultravision to see "inside" of things where technically they would be completely dark and so giving off no light for him to see, but that would only be necessary if you had a really nitpicky GM.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

 

Honestly it doesn't change anything. That is really not a good power construct for X-Ray Vision because his X-Ray Vision is really just Fully Penetrative for Normal Sight. Adding Discriminatory and Analyze to it would mean that he can see BETTER while looking through something than he can normally, which I have never seen to be true, but I guess you can tack them on if you want to.

 

Penetrative, by itself, allows him to see through objects with the same level of vision as he has while not looking through objects. At most he might take some form of Ultravision to see "inside" of things where technically they would be completely dark and so giving off no light for him to see, but that would only be necessary if you had a really nitpicky GM.

 

Technically, the Discriminatory & Analyze are NOT linked to the Penetrative (they CAN be used independently of Penetrative). I only grouped them together conceptually because, in my opinion at least, anytime he is visually examining something in a detailed fashion not already covered by his other senses he is using his 'X-Ray Vision'. But to each his own.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

 

Anyway...

I brought up the Superman example because it was an attempt to build as much of his breadth of abilities as possible on a starting PC budget. And more than almost* any other character in comics, Superman is the poster-boy for super senses.

*(Daredevil is a one trick pony by comparison)

 

What would you change from a sensory perspective (besides the various concentration & end limitations)?

Do you think he shouldn't have Discriminatory & Analyze?

[phoenix240]

Re: Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

 

In an old X men issue, Wolverine evades an explosion because he "felt the pressure wave of the blast" in time to dive out of the way.

 

IYO, in game terms would this be best modeled by:

 

An incredible Perception roll (critical success) with Normal Touch

A perception roll with Discriminatory Touch

A perception roll with Analytical Touch

 

Something else together like some sort of Danger Sense?

[Greywind]

Re: Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

 

That wasn't an explosion. That was Cyclops eyebeam. The Fall of the Mutants storyline, as I recall.

[phoenix240]

Re: Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

 

I don't recall much about it. It was part of the Morlock slaughter storyline. But I think the question is still valid regardless.

[psyber624]

Re: Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

 

Ahh, you actually bought them linked to his x-ray vision so I didn't understand that wasn't your intention.

 

Again this is hard to define because Discriminatory/Analyze for normal senses isn't really defined by the rules. I don't have an issue with him having Discriminatory/Analyze, I only have an issue with him only having them while using his x-ray vision.

 

I found an example somewhere where it could be used to determine the height of an object (with Analyze being more precise). Something along the lines of

 

the Normal Discriminatory (that Sight gets for free) says "He is about 5 ft tall"

Bought Discriminatory says "He is 5 ft 4 inches tall in those shoes"

Analyze says "He is standing 5 ft 4.257 inches tall, 2.153 inches of which are due to the depth of the heel of the shoe he is wearing, making him 5 ft 2.104 inches tall normally"

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

 

oops!!!

 

pretty bad when you misread your own build...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

 

Ahh, you actually bought them linked to his x-ray vision so I didn't understand that wasn't your intention.

 

Again this is hard to define because Discriminatory/Analyze for normal senses isn't really defined by the rules. I don't have an issue with him having Discriminatory/Analyze, I only have an issue with him only having them while using his x-ray vision.

 

I found an example somewhere where it could be used to determine the height of an object (with Analyze being more precise). Something along the lines of

 

the Normal Discriminatory (that Sight gets for free) says "He is about 5 ft tall"

Bought Discriminatory says "He is 5 ft 4 inches tall in those shoes"

Analyze says "He is standing 5 ft 4.257 inches tall, 2.153 inches of which are due to the depth of the heel of the shoe he is wearing, making him 5 ft 2.104 inches tall normally"

 

I think i originally intended them to be separate but had to link for budgetary reasons.

Given enough XP there's very few senses he couldn't gain.

 

So good catch and shame on me and all that...

[psyber624]

Re: Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

 

No intention of causing shame man I just misunderstood what your intention was.

[phoenix240]

Re: Advice sought: Uncommon Sense(s)

 

Bump for further conversation.