Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

As he only summons fictional characers and they are slavishly loyal it is likely they are not real persons. Propably more on the side of a well programmed holodeck creation or purpose built robot.

 

So it's alright that he's dedicating so much run-time of the game to sex puppets he uses to troll people with, Great, much more progressive.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

Is this really such a great idea' date=' y'all?.....exile from the folk I call my friends. The times they are a 'changing[/quote']

 

if people read the OP, they understand the thread.

[Tasha]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

As he only summons fictional characers and they are slavishly loyal it is likely they are not real persons. Propably more on the side of a well programmed holodeck creation or purpose built robot.

 

If he summon's a flesh and blood person that is the same as the "fictional Character" makes them a real person here. Therefore it's still got the same squick factor for me. Even if they are Golems/Robot/Androids, he is meaning to convey to the PC's that the Villain has so much power he can compel these powerful people to be with him. It is still implying that he is raping them. Again not a good or very progressive thing to have in a game.

 

Also, this is one of the few Villain types that would trip my personal Psych Complications to the point where the Villain wouldn't survive. (I feel the same way about Serial Killers and Child Molestors). It wouldn't matter if the game was Golden Age or what. Villain = Corpse. Campaign derail wouldn't matter.

[Christopher]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

If he summon's a flesh and blood person that is the same as the "fictional Character" makes them a real person here. Therefore it's still got the same squick factor for me. Even if they are Golems/Robot/Androids' date=' he is meaning to convey to the PC's that the Villain has so much power he can compel these powerful people to be with him. It is still implying that he is raping them. Again not a good or very progressive thing to have in a game.[/quote']

I do see your point, Tasha.

 

However if you read the OP again it is explicitly stated that he summons Fictional Characters (not thier actors, the characters they played - wich never exitsed in the first place) to avoid the implication that he could or would do it with any existing person.

 

Also it is clearly stated that this is for a Supervillain campaign. It's somewhat natural that supervillains are not nice people, the same way Dark Champion characters are not nice 4-color superheroes.

Yet I would not condemn any person I don't know just because of the characters he plays in a dark-and-grey scenario. The same way I would not condemn somebody playing a Dark Side Character in one of the Star Wars Computer RPG's or P&P RPG's.

[Tasha]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

I do see your point, Tasha.

 

However if you read the OP again it is explicitly stated that he summons Fictional Characters (not thier actors, the characters they played - wich never exitsed in the first place) to avoid the implication that he could or would do it with any existing person.

 

Also it is clearly stated that this is for a Supervillain campaign. It's somewhat natural that supervillains are not nice people, the same way Dark Champion characters are not nice 4-color superheroes.

Yet I would not condemn any person I don't know just because of the characters he plays in a dark-and-grey scenario. The same way I would not condemn somebody playing a Dark Side Character in one of the Star Wars Computer RPG's or P&P RPG's.

 

My point is that the Villain is summoning People who are Fictional Characters on our world. They are still Flesh and blood people, just taken from their home dimension or created whole cloth by the guy's spell.

 

Whether this is a Superhero or Supervillain campaign doesn't matter. I wouldn't like any rape onscreen or implied in any game badside or goodside. I have played in a Supervillain Campaign, my character was a cold blooded murderous villain. She would have either ended up running the Viper's nest or been second in command to the person she put on the throne. Some lines shouldn't be crossed.

[McCoy]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

My point is that the Villain is summoning People who are Fictional Characters on our world. They are still Flesh and blood people' date=' just taken from their home dimension or created whole cloth by the guy's spell.[/quote']

I see a real difference between "taken from their home dimension" and "created whole cloth by the guy's spell." One we are talking people with an independent existence, the other it is basically his imaginary friends made visible, sophisticated puppets. Would it reassure you if a mentalist teammate announced the were automatons with no EGO / mind for them to get a target lock on?

[Christopher]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

My point is that the Villain is summoning People who are Fictional Characters on our world. They are still Flesh and blood people, just taken from their home dimension or created whole cloth by the guy's spell.

 

Whether this is a Superhero or Supervillain campaign doesn't matter. I wouldn't like any rape onscreen or implied in any game badside or goodside. I have played in a Supervillain Campaign, my character was a cold blooded murderous villain. She would have either ended up running the Viper's nest or been second in command to the person she put on the throne. Some lines shouldn't be crossed.

I can't ever understand how people could find it remotely intersting to playing a supervillain. Or even playing in a Dark Champion world. The very idea of a world with such little hope and light cringes my stomach. I can not comprehend how people could derive joy from playing in such a world or playing a literal bad guy in a P&P RPG.

 

My line on this is pretty strongly drawn and far on the light side, so it is very easily crossed. The campaign in the OP is no doubt far beyond that. About as far as Mr. Wicked.

But the only thing that means is that I simply will never, ever be able to play in such a game. Doesn't mean I think less of the people who play such games and does not mean I think of you Tasha as a potential murderer after you played a "cold blodded murderes".

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

Stop. Take a breath.

Then ask yourself "Am I defending this premise for any good reason, or am I engaging in exactly the sort of "makes girls so uncomfortable they abandon gaming" BS and think that by putting in a "But they're not REAL girls it's OK." justification is going to change how creepy the whole thing feels.

 

Objectification. It's OK I'm using these woman surrogates because they're actually literally objects.

 

Great idea, sure, yeah.

 

Not in my game

[Cygnia]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

Gotta say, this thread is skeevy on far too many levels.

[Christopher]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

Stop. Take a breath.

Then ask yourself "Am I defending this premise for any good reason, or am I engaging in exactly the sort of "makes girls so uncomfortable they abandon gaming" BS and think that by putting in a "But they're not REAL girls it's OK." justification is going to change how creepy the whole thing feels.

 

Objectification. It's OK I'm using these woman surrogates because they're actually literally objects.

 

Great idea, sure, yeah.

 

Not in my game

Were did I ever said I would play in a game with such a villain? Or even such a tone? I also never said it was okay on any level.

As I clearly pointed out Tasha playing a "murderous supervillaines" is as far beyond possible and understandable for me, as playing in the campaign the OP described is for her (and yes, I am sure about this comparsion).

 

But I usually react by simply not participating in those threads/games, except when the question comes how to make it "less imoral". Like I did with the Mr. Wicked Thread: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/90307-Mister-Wicked-6ed-Version Wich as I understand has a lot worser premise than what the OP ever approaches.

[psyber624]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

Long story short this thread is beginning to offend some people for really rational reasons, thereby, IMO, making inappropriate for an open, general purpose forum such as this one. What you choose to do or not to do at your own gaming table is your business, but once you start offending people here it really isn't cool.

 

For the record I was originally intending to post my own picks here when I read how others felt about this thread, so I am not trying to be preachy, just stating that we should be considerate to others.

[Ndreare]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

don't forget the Evil Overlord 101 list:

One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation.

 

So one of the girls in the harem should be Shirley Temple, or Dora Explorer if you're younger.

 

This thread just took a turn from weird /inapropriate psudo rape fetish into should be locked by a moderator.

[Tasha]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

I see a real difference between "taken from their home dimension" and "created whole cloth by the guy's spell." One we are talking people with an independent existence' date=' the other it is basically his imaginary friends made visible, sophisticated puppets. Would it reassure you if a mentalist teammate announced the were automatons with no EGO / mind for them to get a target lock on?[/quote']

 

It would be slightly better, but still creepy. Replace women with children and if you still feel that it's not creepy then I MAY be over reacting somewhat.

[Ndreare]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

I think the implication of 5 year old boy and shirley temple should have been enough to remove any doubt of apropriateness.

[Tasha]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

I can't ever understand how people could find it remotely interesting to playing a supervillain. Or even playing in a Dark Champion world. The very idea of a world with such little hope and light cringes my stomach. I can not comprehend how people could derive joy from playing in such a world or playing a literal bad guy in a P&P RPG.

 

My line on this is pretty strongly drawn and far on the light side, so it is very easily crossed. The campaign in the OP is no doubt far beyond that. About as far as Mr. Wicked.

But the only thing that means is that I simply will never, ever be able to play in such a game. Doesn't mean I think less of the people who play such games and does not mean I think of you Tasha as a potential murderer after you played a "cold blooded murderess".

 

The Character that I played in our very short lived Viper Game was just a person who grew up on the streets and was affiliated with Street Gangs there. To her the only people who mattered were her friends/gang members/Squad members. So she could do quite heroic things for them. Everyone else was either a mark or a target if they got in her way. Sometimes it helps to have a handle on evil to play evil.

 

Now I prefer superheroic games that are set early Bronze age. As seem in the "Superheroes that Kill" I don't care for Heroes that kill in Champions games. Actually that alone should tell you how bothered by this scenario I happen to be. That one of my Superheroic characters would not only contemplate killing a villain like described in the OP, but would feel little remorse for doing so.

 

Dark Champions is a whole different genre and usually is much different from Champions in they way characters are built etc. Killing is a part of the genre there, it's closer to police dramas, and Spy adventures than it is to Champions Superheroics. It's perhaps why a book like "The Boys" didn't bother me as much as others. It was kind of high Powered Dark Champions, and everyone was a jerk. Only a couple of the Protagonists were likable, nearly everyone who The Boys killed had it coming.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

Were did I ever said I would play in a game with such a villain? Or even such a tone? I also never said it was okay on any level.

As I clearly pointed out Tasha playing a "murderous supervillaines" is as far beyond possible and understandable for me, as playing in the campaign the OP described is for her (and yes, I am sure about this comparsion).

 

But I usually react by simply not participating in those threads/games, except when the question comes how to make it "less imoral". Like I did with the Mr. Wicked Thread: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/90307-Mister-Wicked-6ed-Version Wich as I understand has a lot worser premise than what the OP ever approaches.

Sorry if you took my words as a direct shot against you, m'man. Just a posting position coincidence.

They were generally aimed at the whole thread.

I tend to agree with you on most topics, after all, and you'd literally just stated your dislike of Villain PC games

[McCoy]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

It would be slightly better' date=' but still creepy. Replace women with children and if you still feel that it's not creepy then I MAY be over reacting somewhat.[/quote']

I should have stayed out of this. My reaction to the OP was that this was more sad than villainous, displaying his masturbation aids in public. As described, this is closer to slash fan fiction than rape. Do you have this same reaction to pornographic fanfic?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

I should have stayed out of this. My reaction to the OP was that this was more sad than villainous' date=' displaying his masturbation aids in public. As described, this is closer to slash fan fiction than rape. Do you have this same reaction to pornographic fanfic?[/quote']

 

That was also my initial hungover/pre-coffee reaction. Then as my neurons started firing I realized this was a perfect example of the kind of situation the other thread discusses, and about how our feeling don't have any real bearing on how women feel about the topic due to the general lack of frame of reference, any more than I have a true frame of reference about growing up, say, black, or gay. I didn't, so at best my perspective is at a step of removal.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

I should have stayed out of this. My reaction to the OP was that this was more sad than villainous' date=' displaying his masturbation aids in public. As described, this is closer to slash fan fiction than rape. Do you have this same reaction to pornographic fanfic?[/quote']

This was pretty much my take on it as well.

That was also my initial hungover/pre-coffee reaction. Then as my neurons started firing I realized this was a perfect example of the kind of situation the other thread discusses' date=' and about how our feeling don't have any real bearing on how women feel about the topic due to the general lack of frame of reference, any more than I have a true frame of reference about growing up, say, black, or gay. I didn't, so at best my perspective is at a step of removal.[/quote']

What other thread?

[Greywind]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

I should have stayed out of this. My reaction to the OP was that this was more sad than villainous' date=' displaying his masturbation aids in public. As described, this is closer to slash fan fiction than rape. Do you have this same reaction to pornographic fanfic?[/quote']

 

Dean Winchester: [Reading on the computer] There's Sam Girls and Dean Girls and- What's a slash fan?

Sam Winchester: As in Sam-slash-Dean. Together.

Dean Winchester: Like "together" together?

Sam Winchester: Yeah.

Dean Winchester: [Horrified] They do know we're brothers, right?

Sam Winchester: Doesn't seem to matter.

Dean Winchester: Oh, come on, that... that's just sick.

[Laundry Knight]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

I never even thought of the rape undertone that the thread may be forwarding whether intended or not, but due to my own religious beliefs, sex wasn't even the first thing I thought of, in spite of use of the word "harem". I was thinking of which characters I thought of as attractive based on how they were drawn or portrayed in visual media or how they were described in print media. I was also assuming that the "women" were little more than simulacra. It they even have a hint of sentience, then Tasha has a really good point, especially if anyone on this board is secretly hiding that kind of hurt in their heart. I apologize for any perceived insensitivity that may have occurred.

[Tasha]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

This was pretty much my take on it as well.

 

What other thread?

Interesting-article-about-Sexism-in-Geek-Communities

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/90362-Interesting-article-about-Sexism-in-Geek-Communities?p=2356873#post2356873

[Tasha]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

I should have stayed out of this. My reaction to the OP was that this was more sad than villainous' date=' displaying his masturbation aids in public. As described, this is closer to slash fan fiction than rape. Do you have this same reaction to pornographic fanfic?[/quote']

 

Pornographic Fanfic is words on a page. Unless they are describing sex between non consenting adults or Children it's way different. I read romance novels for pity's sake. Those are pornographic in nature, at least most of them are at some point. One of my favorite authors writes about Bondage and S&M between the fun gunplay. Now if the novel was full of women being raped on camera etc, that wouldn't be ok.

 

This is something that is being brought into a game, then posted here for a list of best women to violate in this way. I am not really sure what your point about comparing this to Fanfic has to do with anything. I guess I could have tried to ignore this post. I can hope that some GM doesn't think that this is a great idea for a plot line in a game that I participate in. Better yet, I can make it clear that this scenario is one that makes me uncomfortable. Another woman on the board also thinks this is an uncomfortable plotline.

 

If the Wizard choose to display his Pornography collection as a video that the PC's saw. That had a look alike of him having sex with willing lookalikes of various starlets then it would be ok. Pathetic, but it wouldn't bother me much. That he summoned either Sentient Beings, Simulcra, Golems, Androids etc of famous women as a Harem starts to bring up the squick factor. It was rather weird to see the guys offer up so many famous women as fodder for this virtual rape. Remember that Rape isn't about the sex it's about the Rapist showing his absolute power over these powerful women.

 

PS these posts aren't meant to call out any one in particular. Just to point out a possible problem with this thread.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Who you include in your Magical Harem of Fictional Characters?

 

Shutting this thread down. Completely inappropriate, especially outside of NGD.