Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

[The Main Man]

I think it can be done. I think there is a baby in that bathwater. To me, from the pulp stories I have read, the racism had two sides to it. One part is the easily discarded xenophobia and white supremacy. The other part though, in which races are often given lush descriptions that emphasize their exotic differences from the Western world (sometimes even within the West) is worth keeping in my opinion if one approaches it intelligently and sensitively.

 

I've read stories in which other races feel as different from our heroes as elves, dwarves, and orcs do from humans. On the one hand, this implied a certain level of inhumanity - especially for African blacks. On the other hand, playing explicitly different races is commonplace in Fantasy gaming. That is, players often like to play that which is different from them.

 

We can all agree that a good Pulp campaign would at least respect different races for all being human. I think that they can be made interesting not by emphasizing their physical differences but by emphasizing their cultural differences in positive, engaging ways. That a tribe of Africans is black skinned is incidental; that they use spears for combat, revere lions for their ferocity, and find a bowl of spicy, fried grubs tasty is interesting. The important thing is to treat it all with wonder rather than fear.

 

This brings me to something of a challenge: how far can one make templates of a culture without being overly stereotyped? Are (respectful) stereotypes okay in gaming? Fantasy HERO presents Cultural Templates, and in many ways they might cover many bases, but what about the GM who desires more difference from culture to culture? Is that kosher?

 

That said, I think that players can be an important part of this if they play up elements of their character's culture. I think it would help highlight differences between cultures if the players are more aware of their characters' own cultural preferences.

 

What say you all? Am I mad or am I onto something? Maybe both?

[Roter Baron]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

Neither. I think your ideas are off the point.

 

Nobody complains about killing Nazis in Indiana Jones-like settings or scenarios who happen to be German and are at least in said setting behaving stereotipically German. Isn't that racism, even if you throw in the odd good German who is "good like us"?

Isn't that like saying "Hey, Big Sam isn't one om THEM stupid blacks, he is as smart as most white guys!" - Now, Big Sam surely almost feels being on-part with Captain Whitey and Hans the Good German is really proud that he is The One Beast That Stands Out ...

 

If you can't stand stereotypes (racial, cultural, political) than Pulp is simply not for you. You shouldn't overdo it and make you and your player uncomfortable - not every white man in the South treated people of colour like slavery never ended and not every German was goosestepping though his kitchen "Sieg-Heil"-ing his wife and kids after burning down the synagogues and you surely should not use it as an excuse to 'let out them slurrs' as your character.

He is a hero.

Better than most.

 

Stereotypes make for an easy storytelling: Knight, Princess, Dragon. - Nobody would think that an evil Sorceress-Princess kidnapped all the white knights of the realm and only Seawind, Dragon-Protector of all in the Kingdom of Neverwinter can stop her diabolic plan.

 

But you can play with stereotypes: Make the Gestapo-officer the contact of the resistance, make Big Sam a fat professor (nobody said why they call him big). But keep some evil Ratzis, some loyal, strong and colored sidekicks, some Indian thugees, Chinese Dragonlords and some damsels in distress. Otherwise you change the genre so much that you can't recognize it any more.

 

Then it's not PULP HERO but PC PERSON!

[Toadmaster]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

I kind of think Pulp is about stereotypes, it is about big colorful, over the top figures, both good and evil. Traditionally pulp heroes are stereotypes of American and English men, all you are suggesting is the casting department opens up auditions for the hero to everybody.

 

My only concern would be making sure everybody in the game understands the concept, because even positive stereotypes can be offensive. Stereotypes by their nature assume everyone of a type is basically the same.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

I'd just go for the 'don't be racist' angle, myself.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

Make each "race" useful for something.

The PC group can't get things done without X's help :

 

 

• like Chinatown for any pharmaceutical related questions,
  
• the African-Americans know about mysticism and ghosts,
  
• the Italians can make the money move, or make people disappear,
  
• the Poles can shut down the waterfront if needed,
  
• the Jews can unload those jewels for you
  
• the Vietnamese in the garment district can make you those disguises you need
  etc etc
  

[John T]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

While we're at it, let's not ignore the sexism of the genre.

[st barbara]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

Interesting. In my pulp game the players are soon to encounter the black community in New York for the first time (apart from the very large black doorman who works at "The Adventurers' Club"). It should be interesting to see how they react (although the characters are mostly non Americans)

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

Interesting. In my pulp game the players are soon to encounter the black community in New York for the first time (apart from the very large black doorman who works at "The Adventurers' Club"). It should be interesting to see how they react (although the characters are mostly non Americans)

 

..... A-N-D said characters are accustomed to multi-racial / multicultural situations anyhow (Captain Ferguson and his travels AND his crew, Doc Hawke's medical studies and interests, the Padre in general). So, they do lack specific knowledge about NYC's black community, but otherwise they'll manage. A bit more likely to get trouble in the OTHER direction, I reckon.

[Vondy]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

You can have your protagonists look enlightened by having them risk social disapprobation by not giving a rat's backside about racial lines and stereotypes. A few nods to the social norm, and a few mild to moderate problems for breaking ranks, and they're golden. It especially helps if they are wealthy enough not to give a damn what anyone thinks, or are living on the fringes anyways.

 

I had a young Southern gentleman (with a booze and tobacco fortune) who fought in the French Foreign Legion during WWI. His closest comrade in arms was a black American, also from Mobile. Both were highly decorated. The black American was not allowed to fight in the AEF when America came in, while the white American became a doughboy. It stuck in the white American's craw, as it were.

 

This was his friend. The pair had a few adventures in Paris and Tangiers, and didn't get home until prohibition was in force. Feeling it was downright unamerican, went into business together as hollywood flash-and-dash bootleggers. While the black gentleman was "black as midnight with a radiant white smile," his half sister could (generally) pass in white society. It let us play on both sides of the tracks, literally.

 

She and the white American had a thing, which also allowed us to flaunt the miscegenation laws - another way to highlight the period while thumbing our noses at it.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

While we're at it' date=' let's not ignore the sexism of the genre.[/quote']

 

Or, on the other hand, ignore it completely ...

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

Don't go to 'black africa' when you have so very much good Black America right at your fingertips. Black Americans were every bit as interesting, intelligent, well-educated, dastardly, thoughtful, etc. etc. as White Americans; it's just that White America sat in the halls of political power and thereby thought they had it all. If you want some interesting reading/listening, look up the takes-place-just-pre-WWI musical 'Ragtime'. Understand that from the end of the Civil War through the 1880s, blacks were one of the significant political power blocs in the Deep South - which is why the white politicians made such a concerted effort at that point to make it so that it was incredibly difficult for them to vote.

 

That said, the cultures were very much seperate. Jews tended to stick with Jews, the Irish with the Irish, the Italians with the Italians, the Blacks with the Blacks, the Chinese with the Chinese. They all had their own neighborhoods, their own power structures. A New Yorker could travel around the world without ever leaving the boroughs.

 

Make 'a gangster'. Or 'a scientist'. Or 'a dame'. Mention in passing that she is black - or Jewish, or whatever - and suddenly your group has to deal with an entirely different social group. If they don't know Italian as a language, or had a parent who had to emigrate because of the Potato Blight, or have dark skin, then they need to figure out the power structure, and work with what they have. And do some research. Blacks, especially during the time that we consider the Pulp Era to take place, could be very proud of what power and success they acquired - and as a consequence, very sensitive to insults against that power and success. The more gained, in fact, the more sensitive - but then, you had that with La Cosa Nostra, too.

[John T]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

Or' date=' on the other hand, ignore it completely ...[/quote']

Might as well ignore the inherent racism of the genre and period, then. Both were a part of it, both have the potential to be "sticking points" for an RPG campaign in the setting.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

Back when the TV series All In The Family was on the air, folks would ask how they could get away with having a character as unapologetically racist (sexist, homophobic, etc.) as Archie Bunker. The folks involved (Norman Lear, Carroll O'Connor, Rob Reiner, etc.) said the keys were:

 

1. Archie's bigotries were never portrayed as correct (i.e., while Archie might sometimes be in the right on other issues, his bigotries were never justified).

2. Archie was never completely defined by his bigotries (i.e., he also had good qualities, which -- while they didn't necessarily "make up" for the bigotries and leave him a character the audience rooted for -- were still a part of his character).

 

I think you could take largely the same approach with racism (and other -isms) in a pulp game, provided you have mature players who are willing to do so. I think characters (even player characters) can reflect the beliefs of the era without becoming insulting, as long as the beliefs themselves are never shown to be right (from the perspective of the "audience" or "reader"), and as long as the characters (with the exception of villainous embodiments of the attitudes) have other, more redeeming, qualities.

[pinecone]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

I ran a "Pulp +1" game for M&M< for some friends and I went with "The Outsiders" pulp heros with light power sets...every char, no exepions had to be a minority that was rejected by "proper" society. So "Fast" Chun Kung fu master with 1 level of Superspeed, Irish Rose; A female irish gambler, etc....(Luck powers)

[st barbara]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

..... A-N-D said characters are accustomed to multi-racial / multicultural situations anyhow (Captain Ferguson and his travels AND his crew' date=' Doc Hawke's medical studies and interests, the Padre in general). So, they do lack specific knowledge about NYC's black community, but otherwise they'll manage. A bit more likely to get trouble in the OTHER direction, I reckon.[/quote']

 

Mmmm, its possible !

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

Might as well ignore the inherent racism of the genre and period' date=' then.[/quote']

 

That would be my recommendation as well, yes.

[GhostDancer]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

...and the rampant racism and sexism persisted into the Golden Age of Comics, aka the WWII era, of course. One of our Arsenal of Democracy players suggested our superteam be called the Guardsmen, a nod to our Guardian Building (commandeered by the War Department IRL) hq and the sexism of the day.

 

It's a good idea to address in writing prior to the game session what the expectations are for your rpg. That way people can better determine if it is their cup of tea.

[Nothere]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

The thread is splitting into two so two different sections

 

Sterotypes

 

And what's wrong with sterotypes? There quick shorthand in all genres. From the femme fatal to the hick town sherriff to the stuck up rich guy you know who your dealing with pretty quick. That last part is a pretty good reason to put in a twist on the sterotype, but it isn't necassary. Pulp made thousands of great stories using only sterotypes. No a sterotype dosen't represent a whole community, but you aren't trying to represent a community. Your trying to tell a hopefully fun and exciting story. The trick is what sterotype to use. This is pulp so for the bad guys think of the worst sterotype and thats about where they should be. Or to use the most used example here the mighty whites visit Africa. The bad guys represent the worst sterotypes, but you don't want to paint all the villagers with the same brush. Remember there are many sterotypes. The noble savage, and niave kid who idolies the hero being two you can easily work in.

 

Racism

 

The pulps form rampaging and background were full of it by today's standards. So the first thing you need to do is check your players comfort level. If they shrug and say it was a different time, you don't have to worry about it too much. If their heads explode, you might want to consider a different sort of campain. If you decide to try and have the setting throw some in there are two ways. The easy one is the big racists being the bad gutys. Who dosen't like punching Nazis? Otherwise keep it light and background. For example a group of charecters were heading to a nightclub in the black part of town. I had a couple of background folks suggest they should be careful in that part of town, and others mention there was nothing wrong with going there.

[Toadmaster]

Re: Spinning Pulp Racism Into Something Productive

 

Stereotypes are kind of an important feature of pulps. It generally features over the top characterizations of people. While stereotypes may rub some the wrong way, most can be comfortably handled by keeping the stereotypes even (good and bad). The evil Fu Manchu just isn't the same if he isn't kind of a bad example of Asian culture seen through the eyes of a Westerner. He could be well done as a sympathetic villian defending his race and culture from the depredations of the West, but probably wouldn't be nearly as pulpy. I see Pulp as similar to comics, the Golden Age (and Pulp) is about larger than life figures in shades of black & white. Silver and Iron age introduce more human aspects and growing shades of grey.

 

The racism and sexism is a more difficult subject, that I think needs to be handled on a group by group situation. Some groups want a full in your face experience with slurs and blatant disrespect, others would like to gloss over it completely. My personal preference is subdued. Obvious enough that a prudent player group will send the white adventurers to talk with the white sherriff, but not in your face with slurs and such. This prvides a nice balance in my opinion, those with a mind to fight the racism can, but those who prefer to ignore it largely can as well. Raism isn't always a bad feature in a game or literature, it provides tension and room for development. I've always liked the way it was handled in the movie In the Heat of the Night. There was no happy see the light moment in the film, but by the end the sherriff was forced to recognize his own limitations in comparison to a clearly better man from a "lesser" race.