How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

[lou_tennant]

I don't mean players turning up late for a session - only one way to deal with that if it is a regular thing.

 

I mean characters arriving late in a campaign. HERO is based on points, 75+75 for instance. So the first group go out and gradually over the years they are whittled-down and only a couple remain, these veterans take on new guys and keep going... the story continues.

 

Along comes the day that the veterans can be sitting there on 75+75 +100 Eps (a lot of trips - I have campaigns going back to the 1980's) and a new player or two turns up and gets 75+75 to play with, then thinks... hang-on what about the 100 point difference?

 

In the real world this happens frequently, but for some reason (competitive nature perhaps) players can't stand to have less than others. If it is only a couple of trips 6-12 points it isn't as noticeable.

 

Just wondered what other do - if they have this problem at all.

[Vulcan]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

I have the new player start out a bit behind the others, but within shouting distance so he won't be a liability. In the above example, vets with 75+75+100xp would be joined by an experienced 75+75+50-75 'xp' character.

 

Of course, I'd also insist the new character be created at 75+75, and then add those 50-75 points to that base in similar proportions to the xp spending of the vets. They don't get to make a 150+75 character.

[psyber624]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

Another possibility, especially if a player is new to the game as well as the gaming group, is to award him catchup xp. He starts off at 75+75 (in your example) then gets a much larger award every session till he gets "caught up" so to speak. This way he can get a feel for the game, and the group, and find a way to spend his points where they will fit better. This also can help prevent frequent rewrites of a new character as he finds out he doesn't fit.

 

Of course in that situation I would check with both the existing players and the new guy and try to find a diplomatic solution that makes everyone happy. New faces in an established campaign can be tricky unless you have the best of players. Some players could be just as resentful of the newbie getting all the xp that they have been working at getting for years. Doing everything you can to ensure a smooth integration for the new guy is just good GM'ing.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

The GM of the game I'm currently playing in has a take I hadn't seen before, but I like it, and I think I'll adopt it for my own games from now on. He treats XPs as a sort of "game clock" for tracking the progress of the campaign. A certain number are added to each character every adventure, to give the campaign as sense of growth and progression. But they're not added to specific characters in individual awards, with bonuses or penalties particular to each character.

 

So it's not "My character has 64 XP." It's "The campaign has advanced to where the characters now have 64 XP each." Under that setup, a newcomer entering the campaign would start with 64 XP, because that's where the game is now. If desired, you could also add the "reward" aspect by awarding other bennies for things like good roleplay, etc. (possibly things like extra HAPs or the like).

[gojira]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

That's cool, and I was considering doing something similar myself. Not a game clock; award XP more or less normally, but then require some game-time to spend it. A skill or PSL might take two weeks to add +1. A broad skill level might take a month or two. And possibly restrict what you could spend it on, for example some skill or skill level you used that adventure.

 

Seems like it might add more verisimilitude to playing.

[Tasha]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

I don't mean players turning up late for a session - only one way to deal with that if it is a regular thing.

 

I mean characters arriving late in a campaign. HERO is based on points, 75+75 for instance. So the first group go out and gradually over the years they are whittled-down and only a couple remain, these veterans take on new guys and keep going... the story continues.

 

Along comes the day that the veterans can be sitting there on 75+75 +100 Eps (a lot of trips - I have campaigns going back to the 1980's) and a new player or two turns up and gets 75+75 to play with, then thinks... hang-on what about the 100 point difference?

 

In the real world this happens frequently, but for some reason (competitive nature perhaps) players can't stand to have less than others. If it is only a couple of trips 6-12 points it isn't as noticeable.

 

Just wondered what other do - if they have this problem at all.

 

I give the new characters the average Exp of the "Veteran" characters. I do this even if it's just a player who is sick of an old character and wants to try something new.

 

IMHO there's nothing worse than being 20 or more points behind established characters in a game.

[GoldenAge]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

I plop them in equal to the lowest PC's experience level. Easy peasy.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

They lose a toe for a first offence and an entire limb for a second. There is rarely a third.

 

I'm with Derek: when a player is not there, the PC still takes part, controlled by one or the other of the players who do show up, so the PC gets equal XP. Of course the PC might not be played the way the player wants, but we do try and avoid giving back PCs that we accidentally dropped and broke.

 

I used to award bonus XP, but now I avoid doing so. Generally whatever would have earned bonus XP is worth it anyway in bragging rights and I don't think XP differentiation is particularly helpful anyway. Not a competition.

[lou_tennant]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

 

I have the new player start out a bit behind the others, but within shouting distance so he won't be a liability. In the above example, vets with 75+75+100xp would be joined by an experienced 75+75+50-75 'xp' character.

 

Of course, I'd also insist the new character be created at 75+75, and then add those 50-75 points to that base in similar proportions to the xp spending of the vets. They don't get to make a 150+75 character.

 

I'd agree with that - I certainly control the spending of the EPs - I might even put some basic 'story' to each set of EPs.

[lou_tennant]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

Another possibility, especially if a player is new to the game as well as the gaming group, is to award him catchup xp. He starts off at 75+75 (in your example) then gets a much larger award every session till he gets "caught up" so to speak. This way he can get a feel for the game, and the group, and find a way to spend his points where they will fit better. This also can help prevent frequent rewrites of a new character as he finds out he doesn't fit.

 

Of course in that situation I would check with both the existing players and the new guy and try to find a diplomatic solution that makes everyone happy. New faces in an established campaign can be tricky unless you have the best of players. Some players could be just as resentful of the newbie getting all the xp that they have been working at getting for years. Doing everything you can to ensure a smooth integration for the new guy is just good GM'ing.

 

I have used this in the past for 'blocked' points as well (a house-rule that we have used since the 1980's), I allow an 'over-spend' of up to 5 points of disadvantages in order to allow players to get the right level of disadvantages - they have to really justify it though. These points become available on a 2 to 1 ratio with EPs. Every 2 EPs unlocks 1 blocked.

[griffinman01]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

I've never had the problem but I would put them at the same level as everyone else. I keep everyone in my adventures at the same EXP so that there's no competition for bonuses or anything. I do have bonus exp for optional objectives (such as finishing a fight in a certain time limit, using skills to uncover some hidden facts, or defeating a villain a certain way) but that's a communal thing that everyone gets to work for. If the team manages to beat the villain before he has a chance to fire up his ultimate attack, I see that as a team effort and the team should be rewarded. A newcomer is the same way. If you start someone at 25-50 points below the rest of the team it'll make them feel weaker than the rest and it seems like they're being penalized for not being there from the start.

 

Being late to each game is a different matter. I typically have their PC tag along with the rest but have them do stupid things (typically getting the snot beat out of them in some hilariously embarrassing way)

[Markdoc]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

I plop them in equal to the lowest PC's experience level. Easy peasy.

 

This is exactly what I do. Since I award XP per person, not to the whole group, the PCs usually have a pretty broad band of XP anyway. I do almost the same if a PC dies: the new PC starts off with the "group minimum" plus however much they got for their "Death scene" If tehy have really awesome death scene, they can actually come out if it ahead (though, to be honest, that's only happened once).

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

I'm with Derek: when a player is not there' date=' the PC still takes part, controlled by one or the other of the players who do show up, so the PC gets equal XP. Of course the PC might not be played the way the player wants, but we do try and avoid giving back PCs that we accidentally dropped and broke.[/quote']

 

I have a fixed agreement with my players. I don't award XP if a player misses a session: at the same time, I run the PC as a GMPC, and it can be generally assumed that they a) won't play a leading role in the session and won't come to any significant harm. So no risk, no reward.

 

I used to award bonus XP' date=' but now I avoid doing so. Generally whatever would have earned bonus XP is worth it anyway in bragging rights and I don't think XP differentiation is particularly helpful anyway. Not a competition.[/quote']

 

I've always been very stingy with bonus XP, but I find that even non-competitive players like it and it reinforces the "That was awesome!" vibe that I like to aim for. It's rare enough that I don't think even the more competitive players actually figure it into their gaming plans.

 

cheers, Mark

[Escafarc]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

3 points less than the lowest PC.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

No one has commented on my suggestion to lop off body parts...

[Greywind]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

teh bunneh hasn't checked in yet.

[GhostDancer]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

teh bunneh hasn't checked in yet.

 

Yeah, but we know his answer-[ATTACH=CONFIG]45300[/ATTACH]

[bluesguy]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

My rule of thumb is new characters have a standard build and then 80% of the average XP for the whole party. It is a rule of thumb and I will adjust if necessary. It has worked well.

[teh bunneh]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

I have a fixed agreement with my players. I don't award XP if a player misses a session: at the same time' date=' I run the PC as a GMPC, and it can be generally assumed that they a) won't play a leading role in the session and won't come to any significant harm. So no risk, no reward.[/quote']

 

Yep, that's pretty much how it works in my games.

 

Also, in my recent Fantasy Hero game, the players each had a set of different characters for different situations (one group were noblemen who advised and assisted the local Baron, another was a group of adventurers who were good at killing monsters, another was a squad of police officers in the nearby town). When I gave XPs, I told my group that those were for the Players, not the PCs, so they could assign them to whichever character they wanted (though I encouraged them to give the points to the PC who was active in that particular session). It worked out pretty well, but I've got a good group.

 

 

 

They lose a toe for a first offence and an entire limb for a second. There is rarely a third.

 

Finally, someone talking some sense around here!

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

No one has commented on my suggestion to lop off body parts...

 

I think the above quote would make an excellent addition to your sig, Mr. Waters.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

I think the above quote would make an excellent addition to your sig' date=' Mr. Waters.[/quote']

 

A most excellent notion...

[Sean Waters]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

...

Finally, someone talking some sense around here!

 

I'm pretty sure that someone saying that about one of my posts a of the signs of the End Times. teh end times.

[Ndreare]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

In my games every player has the same number of points to work with. If the game has played 13 sessions then they have 26 experience above the baseline. This makes everyone happy. No player wants to be introduced to a group as a side kick, or even worse be punished a second time after their character dies by coming back as a the sidekick. Try to introduce a new player and you get the same issues IMHO.

 

I do award extra credit for great play though it is not xp, I award "Influence" which is like Hero Action Points.

 

================================

 

As to arriving late to a game, well there are four of use, we are all married or have kids so being late is a given. I normally just tell them my excuse and then we get started. After all we play socially so when social influences interfere it falls under the life happens category.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

How do I allocated XP?

 

What I like to do is go to the bank and turn £20 into pennies. That's 2000 pennies. I make a big pile in the garden, or several smaller piles hidden round the house, and the players get set, and go bring back as much cash as they can. 5 players x 400 points = 2000. See? Each penny = one character point to build the base character with. They can buy more at £1 for 10.

 

Free to play then micro-transaction them to death. You know it makes sense.

 

What?

[Orion]

Re: How do GMs out there handle late arrivals

 

It past groups where I was a player, new players and characters were always brought in at the same level as current players. While we got XP each session, gaining power was never the reason to play, and there was never a feeling that newcomers have to earn their power. Zero to hero was not something we ever did. The new character was supposed to have been adventuring in another city all along and thus got XP there, or was a new hero that just happened to start on a higher level. Either way, we didn't really care.

 

Thinking back on it, I'm not sure I ever knew what any other character actually cost in points. I assumed they were all about the same point value, but combat effectiveness was all I cared about then. They could have 1000 points in various skills, but as long as their damage output wasn't higher than mine, I didn't care. I got over this though, and now care more about a good backstory and how they interact with the group than the effectiveness.

 

As a GM, I personally don't care whether the characters are equal points or not. I'd even be willing to allow the new character to be at a much higher level than the current characters, if all the players agreed. This is something that is decided in the campaign setup before the game starts. If it matters to the players, I just go with whatever makes them the happiest in regards to power levels.