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Looking For Input On Potential New Fantasy Product


Jason S.Walters

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Forgive any ignorance on my part but I honestly lost track; is this project still a go? 

 

Actually, I don't know. 

 

I had been gone for a while.  There was a time during the transition that the boards were pretty much unusable for me so I stopped coming to them and just occasionally check back to see if things had changed.    Now they are up and running and I can use them. 

 

I saw a new post in the thread and jumped in. 

 

I certainly hope that it is still an option.  But I think they've been too busy with other things to chime in with an update. 

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It's been months since Jason has had any input on this thread. I haven't seen any company remarks on this subject elsewhere on the forums or the website homepage during that time.

 

Jason did say he would tell us when he has anything concrete to share, and I'm willing to take him at his word. :)

 

Sounds good.

 

And most likely our musings here are pretty far behind the power curve.  I'm guessing that at this point he would already have a solid idea of what his approach will be. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

What I'd love to see in a Fantasy Hero book (or better line of books) for 6E is:

 

A complete guide that opens with some talk about heroic tier play, that changes from Champion style game and why.

 

Then the Complete series of concise rules, however I'd love linked (indexes ) when you hit  some powers that point you at later sections in the book for advanced magic, class, race options. So say you show off Aid, after explaining the power, have a line of (See the spell "Healing Prayer on Page XX for example).

 

When covering skills include some talk about different racial everyman packages, maybe showcase regional skills for desert clans, kingdoms, etc.

 

All the good basic Fantasy perspective on the Complete core material.

 

Then the good stuff. One of the issues I have with the Grimore book is I want to see more talk about magic systems and how they tied to a setting. Examples on stuff like prayer, odd costs for spells, etc. Slow vs Fast magic and what it does to a setting.

 

I also would love race building to cover more about races as cultures and how you can flavor up characters with things like family and racial biases.

 

Lastly, Kingdom Building options. How can a HERO system character act as the ACKS style adventure to king gameplay. Leading armies, having minions/hirelings.

 

Sure, cover the classic dungeon crawl as a style of Fantasy, but I really want some talk covering more of Game of Thones, weirder stuff like Dark Sun style settings, planar adventures, Dark Sun Rising (if you read the book), etc.

 

And then tones of example monsters and characters.

 

I'd actually love a series of Fantasy Hero Complete books. Like a core hardback and then 2-3 soft cover supporting manuals. I'd kickstart a whole set! $100+ for a set of 3 books, etc. Like a revised series of Beastiary, Grimore, Kingdom Building books. I'd be in heaven.

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Or actually. A Fantasy Hero Complete, and a Fantasy Hero Companion. A tight set of 2 that expand and gives examples. Grimore, Beastiary, etc stuff beyond the core Fantasy hero with build examples and prebuilt stuff.

 

Fantasy Hero Complete - Core rules, genre aids.

 

Fantasy Hero Companion - Build examples, races, spells, etc,

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Okay, I think the best chance for commercial success is, "Show not Tell" the advantages of Hero System, namely:

 

1) Aggressively pursue a licensed setting from an up and coming fictional work with its own built-in fanbase like Larry Correia's Monster Hunter International, which in my opinion Steve Long and Larry Correia made into an awesome, "Dark Champions Complete".

 

2) Work with the author of the fictional setting to showcase Hero System's incredible flexibility by NAILING the "look and feel" of the fiction that the fans of the works already love; with all the Hero System rules (and only the rules) necessary to that objective.

 

3) Accept the loss of traditional game store retail revenue stream, and fund by KickStarter, leveraging the non-Hero System fanbase of the fictional work to increase the Hero System fanbase and showcasing and marketing heavily at gaming conventions to build up direct online sales from the Hero Games Store. If enough fans are requesting it through game stores, they'll stock it too, some. Eventually. Or else become irrelevant to RPG books and continue to go more towards high ticket board games and miniatures and card games.

 

Rinse repeat for Pulp Hero Complete, Star Hero Complete.  :rockon:

 

To sum up, Hero System is like an awesome video game graphics engine; it makes the games great, but people buy the games, not the graphics engine. Did anyone by a video game because it uses Torque 3D graphics engine rather than Irrlicht, Ogre, Panda3D, etc? No. But if they buy a game and love the graphics, they will look for new offerings from the same company. Likewise, if they buy Monster Hunter International RPG because they love the setting, and find they really love the game play/character generation, they will be more open to the same company's licensed Fantasy setting, while fans of Hero System will be getting a new, licensed setting, not just the same old rules re-baked in a new, more concise format.

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For this I would Suggest Malazan Book of the Fallen.

 I have my favorites too, but I know it is hit and miss what might be available or even just connecting with an author to find out; Monster Hunter International kind of just happened by coincidence, if I understand correctly, and "PS238" was a great license that didn't translate into commercial success, so it's still a gamble. That's why I suggest Kickstarter as a "crowd source", validation test as to whether there really is enough fan interest in the fictional book(s) to justify an RPG.

 

Ultimately, it could well matter more how engaged the author is in promoting the Kickstarter to his/her fanbase than how "cool" the Hero System fans think the licensed setting is...

 

On that note, Larry Correia (author of MHI) also has a fantasy/pulp series (Grimnoir Chronicles) that might not be Hero System fan's first choice, but might be worth inquiring about, if he had a good experience with the MHI RPG; Larry self-published his first MHI novel, so is no stranger to doing the work to market his projects to his fan base.

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Grimnoir Chronicles are awesome. I mentioned during the kick starter how cool it would be and still feel the Dame way. 

I wonder how well monster hunter had done? 

ForThat matter Iwonder if any one at Hero is even following this. I know Darren  W and Steve L must be working on other stuff to actually pay the bills.

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Grimnoir Chronicles are awesome. I mentioned during the kick starter how cool it would be and still feel the same way. 

I wonder how well monster hunter had done? 

ForThat matter Iwonder if any one at Hero is even following this. I know Darren  W and Steve L must be working on other stuff to actually pay the bills.

 I can only speculate, but it seems like monster hunter was a success as a KickStarter, but not necessarily a success as far as selling books after all the KickStarter participants got theirs. I base this on the inventory listing in the Hero Game store that shows nearly five hundred books available.

 

I think that phase 3 of the process would have to be to heavily promote the book at conventions (running games for it and such) to try to generate continuing awareness of the game and eventually build up demand beyond the fans that were involved in the Kickstarter. The (RPG) book got good reviews, and should be a hit with gamers if they are exposed to it, but as posted above, that exposure likely won't be in the game stores because it was published as a Kickstarter project and has already sold to the core fans who funded it.

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By the way, one possibly underserved, passionate fanbase is for web comics. Order of the Stick had a tsunami-level successful Kickstarter project that funded waaay over target, and Schlock Mercenary has had a very successful  Kickstarter project too, I believe.

 

Can you imagine a Hero Games licensed, Order of the Stick RPG on Kickstarter in lieu of a "Fantasy Hero Complete" rulesbook? I know the comic was originally based on D&D, but it is way past that now, and Hero System does ANYTHING better!

 

My personal wish would be for a Hero Games licensed "Schlock Mercenary" RPG in lieu of a "Space Hero Complete"!

 

Another benefit of basing an RPG on a popular web comic would be that getting the art for the book should be much easier and more economical too.

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By the way, one possibly underserved, passionate fanbase is for web comics. Order of the Stick had a tsunami-level successful Kickstarter project that funded waaay over target, and Schlock Mercenary has had a very successful Kickstarter project too, I believe.

 

Can you imagine a Hero Games licensed, Order of the Stick RPG on Kickstarter in lieu of a "Fantasy Hero Complete" rulesbook? I know the comic was originally based on D&D, but it is way past that now, and Hero System does ANYTHING better!

 

My personal wish would be for a Hero Games licensed "Schlock Mercenary" RPG in lieu of a "Space Hero Complete"!

 

Another benefit of basing an RPG on a popular web comic would be that getting the art for the book should be much easier and more economical too.

Web comics, you say? How about Axe Cop Hero? :rockon:

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 "Show not Tell" the advantages of Hero System,.... showcase Hero System's incredible flexibility by NAILING the "look and feel" of the fiction that the fans of the works already love; with all the Hero System rules (and only the rules) necessary to that objective.

 

 

Consider yourself reputized

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

This has the look and feel of a palindromedary tagline

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By the way, one possibly underserved, passionate fanbase is for web comics. Order of the Stick had a tsunami-level successful Kickstarter project that funded waaay over target, and Schlock Mercenary has had a very successful  Kickstarter project too, I believe.

 

Can you imagine a Hero Games licensed, Order of the Stick RPG on Kickstarter in lieu of a "Fantasy Hero Complete" rulesbook? I know the comic was originally based on D&D, but it is way past that now, and Hero System does ANYTHING better!

 

My personal wish would be for a Hero Games licensed "Schlock Mercenary" RPG in lieu of a "Space Hero Complete"!

 

Another benefit of basing an RPG on a popular web comic would be that getting the art for the book should be much easier and more economical too.

 

Translating that property to a RPG is still a gamble, though. No telling if the readership fanbase will migrate to a gaming fanbase, or will expand from that specific setting to other products by the same publisher or using the same system.

 

PS238 is a popular web comic, after all. Since I'm not privy to the success of the OOTS and SM games post-Kickstarter, I can't speak to the viability of those particular franchises. But in the end, game publishing is still half alchemy. Don't get me wrong, I believe it would be worth trying to get another popular license; but IMHO it would be premature to have visions of the legions of fans of a particular property automatically buying a game based on it.

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Translating that property to a RPG is still a gamble, though. No telling if the readership fanbase will migrate to a gaming fanbase, or will expand from that specific setting to other products by the same publisher or using the same system.

 

PS238 is a popular web comic, after all. Since I'm not privy to the success of the OOTS and SM games post-Kickstarter, I can't speak to the viability of those particular franchises. But in the end, game publishing is still half alchemy. Don't get me wrong, I believe it would be worth trying to get another popular license; but IMHO it would be premature to have visions of the legions of fans of a particular property automatically buying a game based on it.

 

This is exactly why I think it has to be a Kickstarter...if the fans are willing to in effect pre-order the RPG by funding the Kickstarter (and the author is willing to really invest in getting the fans out there to support it), then you know you have a license that might be really worth the shot!

 

From what I saw, PS238 was always more of a print medium first though; the physical comic books came first, and the web site was careful not to put up any strips until well after they had been published in print. I suspect that a majority of its fans never even knew about the RPG!

 

In fact, I never saw any mention of the RPG on the author's web site, though I could have missed it. My impression was that the PS238 licensed product was basically trying to outreach to Hero System fans and kids of Hero System fans rather than tap into the existing PS238 fan base.

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Thanks! My inspiration is the MHI RPG Kickstarter! To me, it is the perfect form of "Dark Champions Complete"!

 

I have the PDF and am waiting for my hardcopy to arrive.  I haven't had a chance to do more than skim it, but from I saw this is a great format for an X Complete book, especially one like Champs and MHI that needs upfront flexibility.  But I can still build a complete agent without even opening the powers section.  For a book like Fantasy Complete I would be more complete in a couple magic systems (Mage and Cleric) and push the Powers section further back in the book.  A player should be able to build a complete character from just the available lists in the front of the book.  The GM would need the powers section to allow him to expand the monster/threats.  

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  • 2 months later...

Re: Looking For Input On Potential New Fantasy Product I completely missed the possibility of a pdf for added stuff. Never mind then, put all the specific bits into a free pdf and use the space in the book for more important things. I just think it is important to include a way for people to buy the book and get right into playing. A free pdf is a great way to do that.

As a noob here & a non-GM I'd prefer this flipped. I am of the opinion the book would sell best if the meta rules on how to build things was in a secondary source. I personally think those rules would benefit sales best by going OGL but that's a bold bold step to take. Rather, point to CC.

 

This book should be prefab races, spells, classes (leave words like template or package out please) etc. Want to compete with the top fantasy lines? Emulate their presentation. Emulate their grammar. Throw the basics in on how to upgrade Magic Missile but don't confuse folks with long passages on how to build it from the ground up.

 

Also, in fantasy most folks come to the table with either a race or class (or both) in mind. Rather than say being a dwarf costs 20 or whatever points, show how many points a dwarf has to spend on their Standard build.  This is a minor thing but it helps people think race (therefore The Game) before points (System). Game, then system rather than System, then Game.

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