Outside the Box powers

[Clonus]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

Here's how it goes; Suppose you are in a 10x10 room with someone' date=' a guard say. Now with a normal FLASH you would make it so the guard couldn't see ANYTHING. Now restrict that blindness to just the sight of the character. She is standing in front of you and you can't see her for a number of segments equal to the FLASH. You can still see the room, walls , floor etc but not her, all is normal. By the time the Flash wears off she is long gone and you don't recall seeing her there at all.[/quote']

 

But those aren't the described mechanical effects. THe character wouldn't be able to see anyone not just the character, and you haven't bought anything that would keep the flashed person from remembering what they saw before being flashed.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

Here's one of my favorites; I'll describe the SFX, see if you can guess the power.

 

Character is the super-team's wizard. Off-screen, he keeps an ad running in the paper:

 

"ALMOST ANYTHING: I can help you with anything. If you are in deeply serious doo-doo,

I can dig you out of the hole. Seriously, Lost Luggage, Divorce, Anything shy of murder...

Whatever your problem: Serious Debt, Accidental Death, Brother O.D.ed, Mafia Trouble, Car Crash,

Demon Possession, Family Grief, Bad Grades, You name It. I can help, just call or text the number following"

 

Then later, also off-screen, some sucker who needs help comes in at 3 am with a body. His girlfriend fell off a balcony

at a party, and he thinks he will be blamed for her death. Our wizard raises her from the dead, and heals her up,

and sends the happy couple on their way. But he gives the man an ugly black rock, like a lump of coal, and tells him

the price for this help is to carry this item. (it doesn't matter if the guy carries it or not, it is a curse-rock that will

stay with him for the rest of his life.) So it will reappear in say, the car glove box, if tossed off an overpass.

 

Nothing happens for quite some time, and the girlfriend and the man lead normal happy lives.

Then one day, a superhero battle takes place downtown. Coincidentally near where the man works.

A spray of bullets arc towards our super-mage. He motions, and the projectiles improbably deflect

away from him, but into traffic, seriously wounding a man, an "innocent bystander" in the crowd.

No one connects these two events, but we the readers of this comic book recognize the face of the guy hurt.

What is the real hero power going on here?

[Egyptoid]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

anything that would keep the flashed person from remembering what they saw before being flashed.

 

its still a cool power. the other guards will have the guy committed to an insane asylum.

"I tell ya there's no-one there!!"

[Egyptoid]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

What is the real hero power going on here?

 

No Takers ?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

No Takers ?

 

Deflection/Reflection with Delayed Effect?

Aid Body with an insane fade rate??

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

No Takers ?

 

This does not strike me as a very heroic sort of power, but I suppose one might argue that the wizard is just metting out delayed justice in a fashion that benefits himself. I bet his teammates weren't thrilled when they found out about it though.

 

In 5e I could see this as a Transfer BDY with a Trigger. In 6e that would be a linked Aid and RKA with a Trigger or something similar.

 

A Triggered Missile Reflection vs. Any Target, only to hit those with a cursed rock, would work too as Hyperman pointed out. It has the benefit of perfectly matching the sfx of the deflected attack, but the drawback that it won't help the wizard against a melee hit.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

It was just PD/ED with Gestures. Everything else: the ads, the spells, the rock, the "victims", were all just fluff and flavor text for the SFX.

and a hook for the GM for future stories.

 

And no this was not a 4-color game, unless it was the 4 colors that Frank Miller likes.

[Binnister]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

It was just PD/ED with Gestures. Everything else: the ads, the spells, the rock, the "victims", were all just fluff and flavor text for the SFX.

 

*stares*

 

Soooo, whenever he uses this extra PD/ED, there is a chance that one of the people he's 'helped' before will fall victim to the attack he avoids?

 

(They must have all missed that line in the Ad.....must be in the small-small-small print. )

 

 

EDIT: Got to say, though, I think that's REALLY stretching the SFX. You must have gotten a real (ahem) generous GM to allow that.

 

Seriously, though, it turns a standard defensive power into almost an autohit attack. You just need to go ahead and 'help' a target ahead of time...a really stretch of the term 'SFX', I think....

[Ice9]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

I think he's saying that the victims are just part of the SFX - only existing for the purpose of this ability - so presumably you couldn't use this on a specific enemy that already exists.

Similar to if you had a "Summon random citizens to help you" power, you couldn't just decide it was summoning your arch-nemesis.

[Greywind]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

And no this was not a 4-color game' date=' unless it was the 4 colors that Frank Miller likes.[/quote']Black, white, red and yellow?

[Egyptoid]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

turns a standard defensive power into almost an autohit attack. You just need to go ahead and 'help' a target ahead of time...a really stretch of the term 'SFX'' date=' I think....[/quote']

 

nope, no way to do that. you may be reading too much into it. its like Ice9 said, those people affected were

even less real than the thousands of non-real normals in an rpg.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

nope, no way to do that. you may be reading too much into it. its like Ice9 said, those people affected were

even less real than the thousands of non-real normals in an rpg.

 

I think the issue folks are having is that the special effect description strongly suggests a linkage of some sort that would not work if the Mage in question was not on Earth (space, other dimension, etc..)

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

nope, no way to do that. you may be reading too much into it. its like Ice9 said, those people affected were

even less real than the thousands of non-real normals in an rpg.

So in essence, he has helped a (functionally) infinite number of people and will later kill them for his own good but can never use the power to affect people met in game. That makes no sense to me. Even if I didn't have an issue with the SFX I still don't know if I would allow that SFX on that skimpy build. What is described is simply not what is happening.

[phoenix240]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

I think the power is basically using the "NPCs" as props, nothing more. They aren't significant (and won't ever by unless the GM wants to use them as a plot device) so the mechanics to effects them aren't important. They are an abstraction at best.

[psyber624]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

honestly it sounds like one of those weird powers that authors might create to show how "unique" and "clever" they are. And this guy would have a fight in some weird environment where one of his former "clients" just happened to show up in pure defiance of the laws of probability. Things like a deflected blow while fighting in Atlantis is diverted into a guy who happens to be on the surface on a cruise ship. If he was on the moon the "attack" magically has the ability to fly all the way to earth and we see a caption "8 minutes later...." as the attack strikes down some poor guy on the street. Dark humor kind of thing.

[phoenix240]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

I saw it as working sort of like a voodoo doll. Say someone blasts at the mage with a machine gun. He waves his hands, says some mumbo jumbo and nothing seems to happen.

 

Cutaway to some random SOB somewhere who suddenly gets riddled with bullet holes.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

I saw it as working sort of like a voodoo doll. Say someone blasts at the mage with a machine gun. He waves his hands, says some mumbo jumbo and nothing seems to happen.

 

Cutaway to some random SOB somewhere who suddenly gets riddled with bullet holes.

Yes, but in the confines of the game universe you are killing someone, regardless of how much of a non-entity they are. I don't see how that should be nothing more than SFX for a defensive power. Furthermore it leads to wildly illogical inconsistencies. You can never give one of the cursed stones to a named NPC or teammate. Why? That just doesn't make sense. And without any sort of activation roll or anything to see if a potential target is close it implies that you've basically "helped/cursed" an infinite number of people, which just strikes me as incredibly odd.

[Greywind]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

honestly it sounds like one of those weird powers that authors might create to show how "unique" and "clever" they are. And this guy would have a fight in some weird environment where one of his former "clients" just happened to show up in pure defiance of the laws of probability. Things like a deflected blow while fighting in Atlantis is diverted into a guy who happens to be on the surface on a cruise ship. If he was on the moon the "attack" magically has the ability to fly all the way to earth and we see a caption "8 minutes later...." as the attack strikes down some poor guy on the street. Dark humor kind of thing.

That would explain George and the toilet seat, but I don't think the gravelings would appreciate it.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

That would explain George and the toilet seat' date=' but I don't think the gravelings would appreciate it.[/quote']

Rep. So much Rep for that reference.

[phoenix240]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

Yes' date=' but in the confines of the game universe you are killing someone, regardless of how much of a non-entity they are. I don't see how that should be nothing more than SFX for a defensive power. Furthermore it leads to wildly illogical inconsistencies. You can never give one of the cursed stones to a named NPC or teammate. Why? That just doesn't make sense. And without any sort of activation roll or anything to see if a potential target is close it implies that you've basically "helped/cursed" an infinite number of people, which just strikes me as incredibly odd.[/quote']

 

There could still be narrative consequences without mechanics. If someone found out how the mage's power worked, for instance, there could be repercussions. SFX can have an impact on the story. And as for why you can't give the power to a named character? I'd guess the character just doesn't. He doesn't want to kill his team mates, a "named" NPC never answered his ad. It's a story convenience. Not really my cup of tea but allot of people play that way. He replaces his victims during downtime or otherwise off camera so he has one convenient all the time.

 

It's a bit like how if you don't get Secret ID or Public ID your identity generally doesn't become a plot point. Or if you don't get your character significant other as a DNPC they won't be endangered (at least not regularly) though it might not make solid sense for them not to be. You can, if the GM allows, get a gun, define it as perfectly ordinary handgun but take no charges limitation on it and say "I can reload instantly" or reload "off camera" after all. It's more abstract than I like to get except for a comedic game but there's nothing wrong with it.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

Err, not ... exactly. As written, he's specifying that that is how the power works. He could have 'rPD, Gestures' simply be bullets going into a wall or the ground, but he's specified that the bullets hit a 'casual/innocent bystander' that he's helped/cursed in the past. I don't care about the Named NPC/Teammate thing; causing them to be part of the effects is IMO possible, and consequently they'd get targeted by the attack and have to defend. (Dodge, whatever.) Presuming he's got enough PD to avoid the whole attack (possible, but not automatic), then the 'new defender' has to scramble for it.

 

Would I allow this power? Absolutely. Would the special effects have severe, several, and significant consequences? Absolutely. "Wizard Wastes Washerwoman!! Sorcerer Sends Shots Into Sudster!! Spider-Man A Menace!!" Wizard gains, for no point return, a hunted by the local PDs, wanted for murder - why? Because - going by the supposed effects - he clearly had control over the direction the bullets went, and could have not sent them into the crowd. Etc. etc. He gains (again, without point return) a negative Reputation, and is thought of as a DFV, perhaps. Or a casual killer. Or, well - non-heroic in whatever way is appropriate.

[phoenix240]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

Err' date=' not ... exactly. [/quote']

 

 

What are you disagreeing with?

[Egyptoid]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

but to me as a GM its not any worse than some of those builds you see: (+20 Body, Only if I was Gonna Die -¼)

I mean, what the heck is that ? Is that like the old Hulk writeups "Mass was shunted in from some othe dimension)

Where was this bonus Body hiding?

the Hulk states ... is that characters' added/excess mass is "shunted off into a pocket dimension."

 

If you can wrap your mind around that, then having John Doe take a bullet is about the same, IMHO. physically, not morally.

[Fuzzy Gnome]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

physically' date=' not morally.[/i']

 

Oh, I dunno. When that gamma bomb went off and Bruce got a ton of beef from some other dimension, it was already alive when he found it. Fridge horror.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Outside the Box powers

 

the OP has reminded me of an old power, which was a type of Flashie-Thingie from Men In Black (Deneuralizer)

 

We wrote it up as 12 Dice INT Drain, only versus the topic at hand, or Topic as described by attacker., OIF, Flash Def, etc

 

So the targeted person would not be able to form any coherent thoughts as regards that subject (aliens among us for example)

He would have -20 INT or so for these purpose, and have to even make an INT roll to think about Aliens

(on an 8 or less, or worse) much less get the story straight.