Rules Question: TWF + Rapid attack, is it this simple?

[eriktheguy]

Sorry if this is an obvious question, but I'm a little new. If I take TWF (melee only) and rapid attack (melee only), Can I make 4 weapon attacks per phase with no OCV penalty? (two attacks per half-phase). It just seems like a large increase in offensive output for a small cost, but then I'm used to other styles of systems like DnD.

[CptPatriot]

Re: Rules Question: TWF + Rapid attack, is it this simple?

 

Two weapon fighting (TWF) essentially gives +2 to offset sweep penalties, rapid attack allows you to make a sweep attack in a half-phase rather than a full phase. So you can make a 1/2 move before attacking but you cannot make 2 sweep attacks in a single phase. The attack still is the last thing that can be done during your action..

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Rules Question: TWF + Rapid attack, is it this simple?

 

see 6e2 page 74

[Binnister]

Re: Rules Question: TWF + Rapid attack, is it this simple?

 

So you can make a 1/2 move before attacking but you cannot make 2 sweep attacks in a single phase. The attack still is the last thing that can be done during your action..

 

I don't think this is quite right. With the 'Sweep' maneuver, you can make as many attack attempts as you want...but at a cumulative -2 OCV with each attack.

 

pg 397 5th Edition(Revised) says it better than I, but basically:

 

- figure out how many attacks you want to make.

- apply an OCV penalty of -2 to every attack past the first one.

- make a separate attack roll against each target (which can be the same person or a different one, as long as they are in range).

- If you miss at any time, you stop rolling (Your attack ends).

 

With the 'Two-Weapon Fighting' you get an extra +2 to offset the Sweep penalties (as well as less penalties to your own DCV).

 

So, it would be quite possible for a character with TWO and Rapid Attack, to make a half move and attack 4 times (at -4 DCV vs. each target)

 

(You all can correct me if I'm wrong...)

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Rules Question: TWF + Rapid attack, is it this simple?

 

With the 'Two-Weapon Fighting' you get an extra +2 to offset the Sweep penalties (as well as less penalties to your own DCV).

 

Could you provide a cite for that? I can't find it in 6E1, 6E2, or CC. All my 5E books are at home, but I don't remember anything about it from that edition.

[Ternaugh]

Re: Rules Question: TWF + Rapid attack, is it this simple?

 

Could you provide a cite for that? I can't find it in 6E1' date=' 6E2, or CC. All my 5E books are at home, but I don't remember anything about it from that edition.[/quote']

 

5ER73-74. Instead of 1/2 DCV for a Sweep or Rapid Fire, the penalty is -2 DCV if you have TWF.

 

JoeG

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Rules Question: TWF + Rapid attack, is it this simple?

 

Strange. Either that was dropped from 6E or it is really buried/not spelled out.

[Ternaugh]

Re: Rules Question: TWF + Rapid attack, is it this simple?

 

Strange. Either that was dropped from 6E or it is really buried/not spelled out.

 

6E dropped it. Same with CC. Both have language for TWF that basically says that the character is subject to all rules for Multiple Attack.

 

JoeG

[griffinman01]

Re: Rules Question: TWF + Rapid attack, is it this simple?

 

I don't think this is quite right. With the 'Sweep' maneuver, you can make as many attack attempts as you want...but at a cumulative -2 OCV with each attack.

 

pg 397 5th Edition(Revised) says it better than I, but basically:

 

- figure out how many attacks you want to make.

- apply an OCV penalty of -2 to every attack past the first one.

- make a separate attack roll against each target (which can be the same person or a different one, as long as they are in range).

- If you miss at any time, you stop rolling (Your attack ends).

 

With the 'Two-Weapon Fighting' you get an extra +2 to offset the Sweep penalties (as well as less penalties to your own DCV).

 

So, it would be quite possible for a character with TWO and Rapid Attack, to make a half move and attack 4 times (at -4 DCV vs. each target)

 

(You all can correct me if I'm wrong...)

 

I think what cptpatriot meant is that you couldn't use two INSTANCES of sweep in a turn. So you couldn't use a 1/2 phase sweep for two attacks (no OCV penalty due to TWF) and then use your other half phase to do a second sweep action for two attacks (at no OCV penalty from TWF again) to hit 4 guys at essentially no OCV penalty. You could do a 1/2 phase sweep on 4 targets, but you would suffer the -4 penalty to all targets as you stated.

 

To eriktheguy - The problem with what you proposed is that, even though attacks only take a half-phase to use, you only get to use one attack action per phase. As soon as you attack your phase ends and you lose any half-phases you might have left over. Meaning if you attack without moving, even though you have a half phase left over, that half-phase is lost as soon as you attack. So, what rapid attack allows you to do is sweep as a half-phase in case you wanted to do a half move to get into a better position, draw a weapon before attacking, use find weakness, or pick yourself up off the ground if you were tripped/thrown/etc. So, rapid attack and two weapon fighting would let you move a few inches to get in the middle of a group of three guys, attack each one once (at a -2 OCV penalty rather than a -4 OCV), and, if you're using 5th ed rules, you only suffer a -2 DCV penalty rather than 1/2 DCV.

[Vanguard]

Re: Rules Question: TWF + Rapid attack, is it this simple?

 

5ER73-74. Instead of 1/2 DCV for a Sweep or Rapid Fire, the penalty is -2 DCV if you have TWF.

 

JoeG

 

Strange. Either that was dropped from 6E or it is really buried/not spelled out.

 

6E dropped it. Same with CC. Both have language for TWF that basically says that the character is subject to all rules for Multiple Attack.

 

JoeG

 

However, The Advanced Players Guide reintroduces the -2 DCV as an optional rule.

[eriktheguy]

Re: Rules Question: TWF + Rapid attack, is it this simple?

 

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Sorry for my late reply. I submitted this thread and there is a delay before posting because I am new, so in that time I got the question answered on reddit and forgotten about this thread.

 

As a few people pointed out, attacking ends a phase, so you can't spam multi-attacks. This was the mistake I had made.

[griffinman01]

Re: Rules Question: TWF + Rapid attack, is it this simple?

 

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Sorry for my late reply. I submitted this thread and there is a delay before posting because I am new, so in that time I got the question answered on reddit and forgotten about this thread.

 

As a few people pointed out, attacking ends a phase, so you can't spam multi-attacks. This was the mistake I had made.

 

Well, welcome to the game. Feel free to ask anything else and we'll help you out.