Cassandra Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Philip Jose Farmer did a great book on Doc Savage linking his genealogy to every other pulp hero like Tarzan and the Shadow. Doc Savage and Wonder Woman had one thing in common. They both tried to reform their enemies, and set up clinics to do that. Wonder Woman's was for women only however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Doc Savage is a fairly boring character. I never could get into the books because of the very 1930s writing style. What we've seen today is that the most successful pulp movies are those that use elements of the older stories but create entirely new worlds. Indiana Jones and The Mummy weren't existing characters. They were created for 1980s and 1990s audiences with the sensibilities of the times. Shoehorning in Doc Savage would be very difficult if you kept anything more than the name. And you'd have to explain how he got his abilities. Why is this guy so awesome? I don't think it would work for modern audiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Doc Savage is a fairly boring character. I never could get into the books because of the very 1930s writing style. What we've seen today is that the most successful pulp movies are those that use elements of the older stories but create entirely new worlds. Indiana Jones and The Mummy weren't existing characters. They were created for 1980s and 1990s audiences with the sensibilities of the times. Shoehorning in Doc Savage would be very difficult if you kept anything more than the name. And you'd have to explain how he got his abilities. Why is this guy so awesome? I don't think it would work for modern audiences. I think ten minute montage where they show Clark Savage SR turning his kid into a living weapon would be good enough. The main problem with a Doc Savage story turned into a movie would be gangsters/foreign powers with super weapons, hidden civilizations, a madman with a big gun, or some kind of unexplained phenomena. Maybe a combination of all of the above. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebar Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 Philip Jose Farmer did a great book on Doc Savage linking his genealogy to every other pulp hero like Tarzan and the Shadow. And I've still got it in my collection! It's called Doc Savage:His Apocalyptic Life Doc Savage and Wonder Woman had one thing in common. They both tried to reform their enemies, and set up clinics to do that. Wonder Woman's was for women only however. I always thought this "surgery" was a rather creepy part of the stories. Carving the evil out a man's brain may have seemed like a noble thing in Robeson's time, but to the modern mind, it's still butchery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 I always thought this "surgery" was a rather creepy part of the stories. Carving the evil out a man's brain may have seemed like a noble thing in Robeson's time, but to the modern mind, it's still butchery. Perhaps, but I think that you just highlighted the problem many people have in playing Pulp, or many other games for that matter. The problem being the inability separate their current ethics and real world knowledge from the "TV Serial Episodes" set in an earlier age. Note, I am not saying you can't, it is just your post brought up the point that it is indeed 'creepy' and goes against modern morality. I love pulp and have read many many of the old books. But recent (last 2-3 years) games set in the Pulp Era have met with limited success. So few people read for entertainment these days and fewer still read old Pulp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikiman Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 The problem is, the source material in this case just isn't that good. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the Doc pulps as much as anyone. But no one is going to say they're great literature. Now, you can say the same for most of the other pulps mentioned, but many of those have had successive treatments that really did surpass their contemporaries, and created a broad and deep mythology on which to base a film. Doc...just doesn't have that. On the other hand, this is not an insurmountable problem. It means, though that in order to create a good Doc Savage film, the director and sriptwriter will need to step beyond the pulps. They'll have to have the courage to jettison what simply doesn't work (either because it doesn't work on film or because it has become cliched and unworkable in the decades since it was written) while having the wisdom to maintain the good stuff and the flavour of Doc. So, yes, I believe you can create a Doc film both good and profitable. But I don't think we're going to see it. I'll say they're great literature. So there you go. Compared to what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I'll say they're great literature. So there you go. Compared to what? Compared to what else was coming out at the time? F.Scott Fitzgerald was writing his pieces from the 1920's to the late '30s. Asimov and Clarke started out in the end of the pulp era. Edgar Rice Burroughs started in the pulps, but soon enough was publishing his own books under his own imprint. I'm not a big fan of "literary merit" or snobbish assumptions of "important works" (which, frankly, mostly seem to have been simply those the self-important liked), but there is a pyramid of quality, ranging from master of the art , to novelist, all the way down to hack. And whatever good ideas and fun plots the pulp writers managed, their actual skill as writers tended towards the latter, not the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikiman Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Compared to what else was coming out at the time? F.Scott Fitzgerald was writing his pieces from the 1920's to the late '30s. Asimov and Clarke started out in the end of the pulp era. Edgar Rice Burroughs started in the pulps, but soon enough was publishing his own books under his own imprint. I'm not a big fan of "literary merit" or snobbish assumptions of "important works" (which, frankly, mostly seem to have been simply those the self-important liked), but there is a pyramid of quality, ranging from master of the art , to novelist, all the way down to hack. And whatever good ideas and fun plots the pulp writers managed, their actual skill as writers tended towards the latter, not the former. Having read every novel and short story Fitzgerald ever wrote, I still disagree. Asimov and Clarke were too busy trying to impress the sci-fi community with their high concepts to bother with exciting stories. I think your statement reflects the accepted wisdom that adventure stories are inherently less worthy than "serious" literature. It's the same nonsense that means a comedy cannot win Best Picture at the Academy Awards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikiman Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 And I've still got it in my collection! It's called Doc Savage:His Apocalyptic Life I always thought this "surgery" was a rather creepy part of the stories. Carving the evil out a man's brain may have seemed like a noble thing in Robeson's time, but to the modern mind, it's still butchery. Yes, it's far better to leave the evil mind undiagnosed and untreated and let it go on a shooting rampage at an elementary school. Modern morality is a noble thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelCold Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I remember either a comic or a novel a while ago that had The Shadow and his agents fight Doc Savage and the Five because of Doc's little surgical operations in "reforming" criminals regardless of anything was ever proven of their guilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Having read every novel and short story Fitzgerald ever wrote, I still disagree. Asimov and Clarke were too busy trying to impress the sci-fi community with their high concepts to bother with exciting stories. I think your statement reflects the accepted wisdom that adventure stories are inherently less worthy than "serious" literature. It's the same nonsense that means a comedy cannot win Best Picture at the Academy Awards. You have a point, but I'll still stand by my statement. Burroughs wrote action fantasy, and his writing is considered exemplary. H.G. Wells managed to combine high concept with exciting action and excellent use of the english language. Quality shines through, and I find not a huge amount of quality in the pulps, generally - which doesn't stop me reading them for the good action-adventure tales they remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 I don't think it would be that big of an obstacle, portraying Doc, Pat and the Fab Five. Movies have successfully shown small groups like that before. My fear is that Follywood will once again try to 'improve' the story and make disasters like Lone Ranger, Green Hornet and so on. My first requirement is ABSOLUTELY NO ORIGIN STORY!!! I have yet to watch a Jame Bond 007 origin. Indiana Jones didn't have an origin story. Many great adventure stories didn't have an origin story. Doc doesn't need one. Hollywood cannot help but meddle in the production of movies. What might be better for Doc and friends is a series on Showtime, HBO or Netflix. TV shows have the ability to be able to deal with an ensamble cast and still have lots of great stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelCold Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Hollywood cannot help but meddle in the production of movies. What might be better for Doc and friends is a series on Showtime, HBO or Netflix. TV shows have the ability to be able to deal with an ensamble cast and still have lots of great stories. Good point, I've forgotten about Broadwalk Empire so making a pulp action series isn't beyond what the cable networks can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Hollywood cannot help but meddle in the production of movies. What might be better for Doc and friends is a series on Showtime, HBO or Netflix. TV shows have the ability to be able to deal with an ensamble cast and still have lots of great stories. Truth there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostDancer Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I believe an ensemble pulp heroes movie can be well written, and earn a profit. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, of questioned artistic merit, did not kick off an intended series. Did it turn a profit? It grossed $179,265,204 worldwide at the box office, rental revenue of $48,640,000, and DVD sales as of 2003 at $36,400,000. The story SteelCold cited, with The Shadow and his agents fighting Doc Savage and the Five because of Doc's upstate lobotomy operations to "reform" criminals is a fascinating premise. Doc and the Five as antiheroes? Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson has a good look for Doc Savage. Throw in bronze contact lenses, originally hidden by aviator sunglasses, and add the widow's peak hairline, and we're good to go. May have to insist on less toothy smiles for the part. I agree with ya'll, no origin story. I'd skip the childhood training montage, too. Just show us someone interrupt Doc's current training, so we have a glimpse. A brief scene where he visits father Clark Savage, Senior's gravesite is good, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelCold Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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