How to build: Elemental Control in 6e

[Chris Goodwin]

So, I got to thinking... just because you're playing 6th edition doesn't mean you should be denied the use of Elemental Control!  Note that it's not the official return of the Elemental Control Framework, but it is a valid Power build.  

 

Elemental Control:  Aid 1d6.  Base cost: 6 points.  Advantages: 0 END Cost (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Constant (+1/2), Persistent (+1/4), Expanded Effect (3 Powers; +1); 22 Active Points. Limitations:  Self Only (-1), Unified Power (-1/4), Max Twice Lowest Active Points (-0), Always On (-0).  Real Cost: 10 points. 

 

For 8 10 points, you can put up to three Powers into the EC.  Each of those Powers is Aided up to 6 Active Points (all the time) or twice its Active Cost, whichever is less.  The three Powers "in" the EC all gain the Unified Power Limitation, for an additional -1/4 bonus to each of them (which, depending on the build, might not save many points).  Also, the Aid can take any Limitations common to all of the Powers, thus saving additional points.  

 

Options:  

 

Four Powers:  Increase Expanded Effect to 4 Powers, for +1 1/2.  25 Active Points; Real Cost 11 points.  

 

Five Powers:  Increase Expanded Effect to 5 Powers, for +2.  28 Active Points; Real Cost 12 points.  

 

Eight Or More Powers:  Increase Expanded Effect to 8+ Powers, for +3 1/2.  37 Active Points; Real Cost 16 points.  

 

 

Feedback?  Is there anything I've missed or should have done differently?  

 

Edited to include Uncontrolled per Christougher's comment below.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Chris Goodwin

[Grailknight]

Well, I'd increase the maximum and fade rate on the Aid.  

[Christougher]

In addition to seconding Grailknight's comments, wouldn't you also need Uncontrolled and/or Continuous/Constant?

 

Chris.

[Christougher]

I've also had thoughts on rebuilding ECs for 5th ED.  Mostly as an "inverted" multipower build, making them more expensive.  I don't know if this will replace or be in addition to my previous house rule requiring extra Disadvantages to balance the EC's point savings.

 

Rather than the published half-price cost of the smallest EC power, the Elemental Control (or renamed to Unified Power ) pool benefits from additional powers in a reverse fashion from the Multipower.  If all slots in the EC must be on or off at the same time, the EC pool is equal to 1/5 the cost of the smallest power in the EC.  If powers in the EC can be activated/used individually, the EC pool is equal to 1/10 the cost of the smallest power in the EC.  As per standard rules, once the cost of the EC pool is determined, it is subtracted from the cost of all slots in the EC.

 

Chris.

[Chris Goodwin]

I did build it Constant.  In 6E you can't increase the maximum except by buying more dice of Aid, and I kind of figured that fade rate is irrelevant.  I suppose that technically you need to track it across all Post-12's, but then next Phase it just fills itself up again.  Uncontrolled is a possibility, though.  Bears some thought.

 

Aid in 6E doesn't run into quite as many game balance issues as it does in 5E mainly because of the inability to increase the maximum, but also because adding extras to it just costs more.  +1 point of effect is always at least +1 Active Point.  

 

Ultimately this was more of a thought experiment than a serious power build    But it's pretty revealing, I think.  

[psyber624]

Actually increased maximum was added back into the game in CC.

[bigbywolfe]

I'm not sure its absence in 6E1+2 was intentional...

[Chris Goodwin]

I'm not sure its absence in 6E1+2 was intentional...

It was.

[Chris Goodwin]

Actually increased maximum was added back into the game in CC.

Do you have a page number? I looked and didn't see it, but I didn't search exhaustively.

 

Edit: Huh. CC p. 211.

[Hyper-Man]

One consequence of using an Aid based method will be that the effect on certain abilities will be halved (Adjusting Defense Powers and Abilities, 6e1 page 135).  Not a concern with the original Elemental Control Framework.

[Vondy]

What about just applying a common limitation to a list of powers that share the same FX and can be drained / affected as a group.

 

Limitation, Unified Power -1/2 [or more if the GM thinks its suitable]

[Chris Goodwin]

One consequence of using an Aid based method will that the effect on certain abilities will be halved (Adjusting Defense Powers and Abilities, 6e1 page 135).  Not a concern with the original Elemental Control Framework.

 

True, and I hadn't thought of that.  Hmmm.

 

What about just applying a common limitation to a list of powers that share the same FX and can be drained / affected as a group.

 

Limitation, Unified Power -1/2 [or more if the GM thinks its suitable]

 

Well, Unified Power is part of this.    This is as much a thought experiment as it is a usable build, though I am trying to mechanically replicate the EC.  

[Uthanar]

Whether I use this or not ever, I appreciate the thought that you have here.  I know that when I realized ECs were gone from 6E, I was sad.  I always liked the difference in characters between ECs and MPPs, never dealt much with VPPs until recently due to the warnings on them. 

What was the primary reason that ECs were pulled?  They were just a bit too 'odd' in the rules? 

[Grailknight]

EC's were pulled because they were no longer as necessary for game balance in 6th. They were needed to balance the points break given to STR-based characters by figured characteristics. Admittedly, some STR-based Builds used EC's to squeeze even more points. Without figureds, the costs of character building was evened out to the point where EC's were no longer necessary.

[Vondy]

True, and I hadn't thought of that.  Hmmm.

 

 

Well, Unified Power is part of this.    This is as much a thought experiment as it is a usable build, though I am trying to mechanically replicate the EC.  

Conceptually, ECs were intended to provide a price break and did not include a "power up," as it were. The aid introduces an element the original EC didn't contain. Its not a bad concept, IMO. It could be usable. But its not, functionally, an elemental control.

[Christougher]

Because the costs of ECs were *broken*.  Three 60 AP powers costs 180 points.  Put those same three powers in an EC, suddenly you have 60 extra free points with almost no downside.  Any character with an EC was automatically more powerful than one without.  The Drain One, Drain All rule was added to try and balance this, but unless a majority of opponents have Drains it doesn't help.  I house ruled in additional disads equal to the EC pool cost, and it helped some.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of ECs, It's just the 5E mechanics were too good.  And 6Es Unified Power limitation /to me/ doesn't make up the difference.

 

Chris.

[Ockham's Spoon]

A part of me was sad to see ECs go away, mostly because they encouraged cohesive character builds.  And while they could certainly be abused, I don't see them as fundamentally more broken than a Multipower.  I have to admit that while I am less jazzed about Unified Power as a way to promote a logical power set, it does make for more straight-forward character builds which is ultimately a good thing.

 

I like the Aid-as-EC build as an exercise in comparison between the old EC rules and a valid 6e construct; it gives you an idea of how balanced the EC was (or wasn't).  That said, I don't think I would use it just because it adds needless complexity to the character build.  The only thing I would point out is that Aid as an Adjustment Power is clearly perceptible.  To fully replicate the EC you might consider making it Invisible or at least Inobvious to one or more senses.

[Vondy]

A part of me was sad to see ECs go away, mostly because they encouraged cohesive character builds.  And while they could certainly be abused, I don't see them as fundamentally more broken than a Multipower.  I have to admit that while I am less jazzed about Unified Power as a way to promote a logical power set, it does make for more straight-forward character builds which is ultimately a good thing.

 

I like the Aid-as-EC build as an exercise in comparison between the old EC rules and a valid 6e construct; it gives you an idea of how balanced the EC was (or wasn't).  That said, I don't think I would use it just because it adds needless complexity to the character build.  The only thing I would point out is that Aid as an Adjustment Power is clearly perceptible.  To fully replicate the EC you might consider making it Invisible or at least Inobvious to one or more senses.

I tend to be one of those lame people who, unless I can leverage a good-sized power pool or variable advantage mods, will opt to build a brick or martial artist in a superheroic game. This is because swiss army knife characters are a mechanical pain in the backside to build. I want a short, straight-forward, easy to manage design that fits on a single page without too many bullet points to delineate. As a result, I tend to avoid concepts that require ECs and MPs from the outset. It has also led me to question the increasingly granular approach to character design that has pervaded recent editions and led to a certain pan-mechanicism philosophy of game play and character design (though I note the three villains books took a more stripped down approach). I prefer to use less to do more.

[Chris Goodwin]

Conceptually, ECs were intended to provide a price break and did not include a "power up," as it were. The aid introduces an element the original EC didn't contain. Its not a bad concept, IMO. It could be usable. But its not, functionally, an elemental control.

 

If you bought, say, 5d6 of this "EC" Aid, for 30 Active Points worth of Aid (Uncontrolled and Constant) and bought three 30 Active Point Powers, to which the Aid applied, you'd effectively have three 60 Active Point Powers.  A 30 point EC with three 30 Active Point slots would hold three 60 Active Point Powers.  The Aid version would cost you 20 real points more, though you'd get the Unified Power savings on the "slots" as well.  

 

I like the Aid-as-EC build as an exercise in comparison between the old EC rules and a valid 6e construct; it gives you an idea of how balanced the EC was (or wasn't).  That said, I don't think I would use it just because it adds needless complexity to the character build.  The only thing I would point out is that Aid as an Adjustment Power is clearly perceptible.  To fully replicate the EC you might consider making it Invisible or at least Inobvious to one or more senses.

 

True, maybe.  

[Sean Waters]

Let's see...

 

I have:

 

Blast

Force Field (resistant defence)

Telepathy

 

Not sure how those go together at present, something psychic or 'force based' presumably.

 

I have 50 points in each.  They are unified power whotsits, so they cost 40 points each.

 

I want to increase the active points to 56, that will cost 15 points (bad cost break).  The Aid solution costs 10.  Mind you, arguably, I have 72 active points in each, as the Aid is designed to be always there.

 

It feels a bit like squeezing points out for the sake of it without actually adding anything except complication. I would not be happy as a GM for something like this build.  You'd need (at the least) a reasonably common or obvious way to turn it off (because of the 'uncontrolled').

 

I can't recall if you could apply Aid to an old style EC or if you had to boost each of the slots (I think the later).  With this build you could certainly Aid the Aid and increase all the powers at once.  Aiding Aid is a headache.  GM no like.

 

Ockhams Spoon makes a good point that, without invisible effects, it would always be obvious that you were running a power.

 

Sorry to be a grouch but it is not ringing my bell.