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Titanic Troubles or Combat on a Far Larger Scale


Merrick

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Good day, Hero boards!  It's been some time since I've been musing over questions that required community input, but I seem to have stumbled upon one now!

 

After finally getting around to seeing Pacific Rim with my wife the other day she turned to me (a huge mecha fan since forever) and asked that I come up with a game in similar style to the movie for her (not a fan of mecha at all).  Once the tears of joy cleared enough from my eyes to be able to boot up my HeroDesigner I got to work on building her a solid Jaeger knock-off based on the star robot of the film, Gipsy Danger, which I felt was a fair baseline.  

 

I'm using a Size 14 vehicle, and fudging the dimensions slightly to get 11x79x79, which are roughly proportionate for a 260 foot tall humanoid robot.  As I am building, though, one question did come to mind in regards to the OCV-to-hit bonus from the size: should this bonus apply when you are confronting an opponent of similar size?  As I am basing this build off the film, the Jaegers are seen to grapple and box and dodge with some fair amount of dexterity, but only when compared to what they're fighting.  

 

Might anyone have any thoughts on this?  At the moment, I am considering negating the bonus in melee, but keeping it for ranged attacks.

 

Also, any general input, ideas or otherwise for the build would be appreciated!  

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Here you go Merrick.

 

Hero System 5e, Page 462

 

The rules regarding two equivalently large or small characters fighting each other (pages 126-27) apply to vehicles.

 

Hero 5e, Page 126-127

 

DCV modifiers do not apply, or only apply  partially, against other characters using the same Size Power. Subtract the attacker’s modifier from the defender’s modifier to determine how much of a DCV modifier, if any, the defender receives.

 

 

Oddly enough, in Hero 6e this changed. Page 160

 

For ease of game play, these modifiers apply regardless of relative size; for example, the DCV bonus for a character one foot tall is the same regardless of whether he’s being attacked by someone who’s human sized, an inch tall, or any other size.

 

If you're using 5e, then you have you're answer.  If using 6e, then you can go with the book answer or with the previous version (5e) rule.  Personally, I'll stick with the 5e rule...it has the right "feel" and doesn't over complicate the game that much.  Besides, for the game you're running, I think the 5e rule would work best (that is, if you are running 6e).

 

Peace.

 

 

~ M

Edited by Nadrakas
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For OCV bonuses and such I would go back to earlier versions of Hero which suggested that the +2 OCV per size level that your opponent gets only applies to ranged combat.  In hand to hand it does not apply.  Sure it is easy for a human to punch a foot the size of a Buick if it is stationary, but when that foot is moving around and going up and down, it gets very much more difficult.  We can assume most combatants remain in motion most of the time.  For added complication, assume that the OCV penalties DO apply in HtH combat for each level of growth difference IF the smaller character has grabbed or is otherwise attached to the giant character (if you are standing on the mecha's head then it is easy to hit).  You may want to buy a TK damage shield for the mecha to simulate the difficulty of holding on to a 260 foot humanoid robot that is in constant motion.

 

That does away with the problem that two giant mecha can always hit each other in hand to hand combat, and does not make them particularly easy

 

If you are planning to have a campaign where there is a lot of variation between scales, you may wish to consider the basic assumptions of your campaign.  For example the Hero system is a bit hazy on how damage increases.  That may sound a bit odd, but if you look at the Growth table, you will see that a doubling of 'size' (which means an increase of mass of x8) does not double the Body of the large object.  I have not got 5e to hand, but in 6e, doubling size adds 3 Body.  Coincidentally, standard effect for 1d6 is also 3 points of effect.  Remember that - it will be important later.

 

You can draw from this, if you want to, that +3 Body is equivalent to doubling the difficulty of killing/destroying something.  That would mean that each +3 DAMAGE you do with an attack should be, in effect, double the previous amount of damage.  Your 260 foot tall proportional-to-human robot should weigh about 3.2 kilotons and have around +28 Body.  (Again I am using 6e as it is to hand, but the 5e figures will be similar).  Very aggravatingly a character with the Growth power to that level would not have as much Body: maybe +18.  Grr.

 

Things are complicated because defences also have a profound effect on how much damage gets through.

 

In terms of game mechanics, you Hero is not ideally set up for combat on multiple, widely varying scales (mind you, very few games are), but it can be done.

 

What I would be inclined to do is use Damage negation (a 6e power, I'm afraid), which reduces the dice of damage you take from an attack.  You can do a fair approximation with vehicles just using resistant defences.  Basically if you add 3.5 resistant defence, you are negating (on average) 1d6 Killing attack of damage.

 

Now if you assume that the baseline 'size' for Hero is human size, your 80m robot is over 6 times that.  Call it 7.  Buy 7x3.5 resistant defence = 24 or 25 points.  Add a limitation that the defences only apply to smaller scale opponents in proportion to the difference in size: a normal size human would have to contend with the full 24+ points of resistant defence.

 

To complicate things LESS, just define a scale of damage per weapon size.  For example, if humans can only wield weapons up to 3d6 killing, they are never going to damage the giant robot.  Perhaps each doubling of size allows you to add +1d6 killing (3 standard effect, remember?), which allows a 260 foot robot to do up to 10d6 killing as it is 7 levels bigger.  10d6 killing averages 35 damage, or about 10 points through your typical defences.

 

That means that a giant robot with 28 Body can take about 3 hits from a similar robot before going down.  That is about right.  Normal human scale weapons can never harm them.  Tank shells (assuming a tank is in the 8m scale, or 2 doublings larger than a human) can do 5d6 damage: you COULD damage a mecha on a lucky roll, but it is unlikely - most hits will just bounce as the average damage is 17 or 18.

 

I think the best advice is to create campaign build guidelines, and stick to them, to conform to whatever your vision of giant mecha might be.

 

These robots will be expensive to build, but they are giant robots.

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When you are making a campaign where the adventures are on different scales just say that "Giant Robot Scales" behave among itself like normal humans fighting.

The entire concept of the big mechas is that nothing and absolutely nothing can measure up to it (except the monsters or another mecha). It does not mater how insignificant humans or even tanks are compared to the mecha. They are insignificant, period.

 

Simple rule:

Mecha Scale cannot be affected by anything but Mecha Scale. Mecha Scale among themself fights just like humans among themself.

Extraordinary big or small mecha/monster's might have persistent growth or shrinking effect (they are big or small compared to the baseline mecha size).

In turn Mecha Scale is unable to do any small manipulation in the human Scale.

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Sorry, early morning posting on that first post.  Had a little time to think it over....Hmmm...

 

I will assume you're using 5e, as things have changed in 6e (See my previous), not to mention that Growth itself has now changed - no more buying at 5 pts per level with a 15 pt "Level".  Instead you buy each "Growth Category" in 6e -- Large 25pts, Enormous 50 pts, Huge 90 pts, Gigantic 120 pts, Gargantuan 150 pts, Colossal 215 pts...but each "Category" gives you more than 5e did.

 

Ok.  I'd keep the DCV modifiers per 5e for combat.  If the opponents are of the same size (ie: Colossal, Jaegers sized behemoths) then they negate each other and the DCV penalty is negated.  However, against opponents who are smaller (or, heaven forbid...larger) you subtract the attacker's modifier to determine the DCV modifier.  I'd keep this for both HTH and Ranged combat.  Why?  Taking it away for HTH makes it easier for both the Mecha & Monsters to hit humans...and makes it more difficult for the humans to hit the Monsters (ie: the DCV penalty is gone...thus it is "harder" to hit them.  Thematically this "feels"...wrong IMO).

 

In General I would suggest starting with the Size Template (5e, page 574-576) for the base "Characters.  For those who are "Heavies" add on a Mass Template, (5e, page 576-577).  After that...hmmm.

 

 

~ M

 

NOTE: If you need a Template for even larger sizes in 5e, then I have extrapolated them for up to 5 miles in size.  It was necessary for my current game :eg:

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When you are making a campaign where the adventures are on different scales just say that "Giant Robot Scales" behave among itself like normal humans fighting.

The entire concept of the big mechas is that nothing and absolutely nothing can measure up to it (except the monsters or another mecha). It does not mater how insignificant humans or even tanks are compared to the mecha. They are insignificant, period.

 

Simple rule:

Mecha Scale cannot be affected by anything but Mecha Scale. Mecha Scale among themself fights just like humans among themself.

Extraordinary big or small mecha/monster's might have persistent growth or shrinking effect (they are big or small compared to the baseline mecha size).

In turn Mecha Scale is unable to do any small manipulation in the human Scale.

 

I'm not that familiar with Mecha, and I agree in principle with what you say, but that leads to the question: what is Mecha Scale?  This one is 260 feet tall.  Is something that looks like a walking robot/giant monster but is 'only' 150 feet tall 'Mecha Scale'?  What about 60 feet?  30?

 

The point is that it does not matter so much if you have good build guidelines: only the biggest can carry the heaviest armour and most powerful weapons.  If you set the guidelines right, thenyou should not have problems with someone built on a smaller scale overwhelming a huge mech.

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In fact, what I might do is completely ignore the size template/growth table and simply say that the size of the final mecha is a proportion of the final character points spent on building it (at a factor that is set to the sort of size you want your mechs to be at).  That way, size is always a good indicator of relative power.  The height and weight are just a function of the character points, a special effect of all those powers, if you like.  You can still assign OCV bonuses for hitting huge things if you like, just build them as complications required for a certain number of points in the build.

 

It also means that nothing on human scale is ever going to threaten a mech scale vehicle.

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It seems I missed a crucial point of clarification, in that I am currently using 6e for this campaign.

 

Following the flavor of Pacific Rim and nearly any other kaiju/Godzilla style setting, usually an individual human is going to do squat.  Now, massed fire from smaller vehicles might eventually take down one of the Mechas or one of the monsters, but it's going to take a great deal of time or some really lucky shots.  That said, I'd like to avoid arbitrarily ruling that anything not mecha sized is useless, 'cause you never know!  Dice fall where they may, and sometimes a hero gets stranded without their machine.  

 

Right now what I'm trying to see if I like the feel of it is just building it to scale, stripped of equipment, to see how it lines up point wise.  The machines themselves will be in the Very-High Powered range of 500-650, while the pilots are only Heroic characters.  

 

Thank you for that damage to resistance scale, Sean.  It will prove very useful in scaling my armor and damage up in size.  

 

And thank you Nadrakas for those bits from the 5e book.  I did one more quick comb-over through the 6e books in regards to size and its interactions, but those bits seem to have been left out.  However, they do make sense based on what I have planned, so I will likely just use the 5e rules in this case.  

 

As far as size variation, there will not be a significant amount of it.  Most of the monsters are either going to be same size or larger, and the OCV scaling penalty for their larger-than-their-opponent size would kick in at that point.

 

Thank you all for the tips thus far!  Any more thoughts or ideas, do keep them coming!

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Ignore the growth power. base it completely on the vehicle size chart.

 

Use the suggestion in the 6e of comparing size penalties (the dcv penalty) and subtracting the smaller penalty from the larger. this will save you big headaches.

 

There is a thread about designing mecha in the "other genres" forum. i would provide a link but i'm on my cell and thats rather difficult to do using a mobile.

 

Designing mecha in hero is one of my favorite things to do with the system. it works perfectly if you know what you are doing. if you have any questions, message me and we'll work on them together if you wish.

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Ignore the growth power. base it completely on the vehicle size chart.

 

Use the suggestion in the 6e of comparing size penalties (the dcv penalty) and subtracting the smaller penalty from the larger. this will save you big headaches.

 

There is a thread about designing mecha in the "other genres" forum. i would provide a link but i'm on my cell and thats rather difficult to do using a mobile.

 

Designing mecha in hero is one of my favorite things to do with the system. it works perfectly if you know what you are doing. if you have any questions, message me and we'll work on them together if you wish.

Emphasis is Mine.

 

 

NuSourdGraphite, that was taken out of 6e.

 

Reference: 6e, page 160.

 

For ease of game play, these modifiers apply regardless of relative size; for example, the DCV bonus for a character one foot tall is the same regardless of whether he’s being attacked by someone who’s human sized, an inch tall, or any other size.

 

Unless, of course, I'm missing something.  My Wife tells me I miss things all the time. :snicker:

 

 

Ohhh...Mecha. Shiny, Shiny. :bounce:

 

 

~ M

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In fact, what I might do is completely ignore the size template/growth table and simply say that the size of the final mecha is a proportion of the final character points spent on building it (at a factor that is set to the sort of size you want your mechs to be at).  That way, size is always a good indicator of relative power.  The height and weight are just a function of the character points, a special effect of all those powers, if you like.  You can still assign OCV bonuses for hitting huge things if you like, just build them as complications required for a certain number of points in the build.

 

It also means that nothing on human scale is ever going to threaten a mech scale vehicle.

As Long as nobody comes up with a "Megadamage" Advantage, then we're ok. :whistle:

 

~ M

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Consider letting the Human Pilots have Martial Arts, with a Weapons Element "Use Art with Mecha." That way they can use the Martial Art both inside and outside of the Mecha.   Hmmm...To be fair, perhaps the Monsters have their own "Monster Style(s)."

 

Other Ideas:

Fatiguing: Is Piloting one of the Mecha fatiguing?  Perhaps the characters use their own Strength and Ground Movement in order to get the Mecha to "Perform," necessitating that they pay END for their own Strength and Ground movement (But not for the Mecha's...).

 

Feedback: There is feedback when the Mecha is hit, causing the character(s) inside to take Stun Damage.

 

Psychic Connection: Pilots are connected between each each Mecha, allowing them to share thoughts (Mind Link).  If so, other powers could be built with this in mind, including "Danger Sense" when other Mecha are in Danger; Sharing END/Stun between Linked Pilots; Remote Sensing through other Pilots eyes.

 

Mecha Souls: The Mecha's are actually living beings, with Souls & Minds (Though muted).  This is akin to Neon Evangelion Genesis, but hopefully without the whining of Shinji. Berserk Mecha anyone?

 

 

~ M

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Consider letting the Human Pilots have Martial Arts, with a Weapons Element "Use Art with Mecha." That way they can use the Martial Art both inside and outside of the Mecha.   Hmmm...To be fair, perhaps the Monsters have their own "Monster Style(s)."

 

Other Ideas:

Fatiguing: Is Piloting one of the Mecha fatiguing?  Perhaps the characters use their own Strength and Ground Movement in order to get the Mecha to "Perform," necessitating that they pay END for their own Strength and Ground movement (But not for the Mecha's...).

 

Feedback: There is feedback when the Mecha is hit, causing the character(s) inside to take Stun Damage.

 

Psychic Connection: Pilots are connected between each each Mecha, allowing them to share thoughts (Mind Link).  If so, other powers could be built with this in mind, including "Danger Sense" when other Mecha are in Danger; Sharing END/Stun between Linked Pilots; Remote Sensing through other Pilots eyes.

 

Mecha Souls: The Mecha's are actually living beings, with Souls & Minds (Though muted).  This is akin to Neon Evangelion Genesis, but hopefully without the whining of Shinji. Berserk Mecha anyone?

 

 

~ M

 

I had planned on using several of those suggestions already, actually!

 

The control scheme will be something like an exoskeleton suit that interfaces with the control pod and the pilot.  The pilot's fighting skills are what will make the mecha powerful.  It's a massive extension of the pilots body, so having them become fatigued while moving it around (because they will actually be walking/running to get it to move) is quite reasonable.  Any martial technique the pilot knows can, potentially, be used by the mecha.  Some of the more acrobatic moves may require the suit to have special equipment, like maneuvering jets or the like, but generally whatever they can do, they can try to coax it out of the mecha.

 

I only have one player for this game (just running it for my wife) so I'm having "mechanics" maintain and outfit her mecha for the moment.  Generally unless something special happens, the robot will not be changing much at first.  All the points she gets will go to upgrading her pilot's skills in combat.  

 

One thing I am doing right now is buying up the attributes of the vehicle to be roughly proportionate to those on the growth table.  The only thing I'm not sure on how to simulate is the greater reach.  Do I need to buy it Stretching?

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I had planned on using several of those suggestions already, actually!

 

The control scheme will be something like an exoskeleton suit that interfaces with the control pod and the pilot.  The pilot's fighting skills are what will make the mecha powerful.  It's a massive extension of the pilots body, so having them become fatigued while moving it around (because they will actually be walking/running to get it to move) is quite reasonable.  Any martial technique the pilot knows can, potentially, be used by the mecha.  Some of the more acrobatic moves may require the suit to have special equipment, like maneuvering jets or the like, but generally whatever they can do, they can try to coax it out of the mecha.

 

I only have one player for this game (just running it for my wife) so I'm having "mechanics" maintain and outfit her mecha for the moment.  Generally unless something special happens, the robot will not be changing much at first.  All the points she gets will go to upgrading her pilot's skills in combat.  

 

One thing I am doing right now is buying up the attributes of the vehicle to be roughly proportionate to those on the growth table.  The only thing I'm not sure on how to simulate is the greater reach.  Do I need to buy it Stretching?

 

The Colossal Level of Growth shows a +63m Reach, so for a vehicle you would buy Stretching (See Stretching, 6e page 284).  It could be shorter or longer to represent a Meha or Monster with different sized limbs...

 

The Growth Chart (6e, page 229) and especially the Size Chart (6e, page 443) breaks down what each Size Category has.  You can use these as a base (I'm guessing that you already are...), and go from there.

 

And I understand on having one player.  My Wife and I have been doing the One-on-One Gaming for a while now.

 

Peace.

 

 

~ M

Edited by Nadrakas
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Emphasis is Mine.

 

 

NuSourdGraphite, that was taken out of 6e.

 

Reference: 6e, page 160.

 

Unless, of course, I'm missing something. My Wife tells me I miss things all the time. :snicker:

 

Ah. ok. i just got it flipped then. in the 5th edition, you just applied the DCV penalty (I know in 6th, it's an OCV bonus now) however in the Ultimate Vehicle, they added the option of relative DCV penalties, which I have always used for mecha roleplaying (and starfighters). Also for ranged combat, I used the DCV penalty (now OCV bonus) as a modifier to the Range Penalty rather than reducing DCV. That way a mecha with a "-6 DCV penalty" would take 6 away from the Range Penalty and thus could be targeted from as far away as 32" (64m) away with no penalty to the attackers OCV. So very large mecha could be targeted from very far away with no penalty.

 

 

 

 

Consider letting the Human Pilots have Martial Arts, with a Weapons Element "Use Art with Mecha." That way they can use the Martial Art both inside and outside of the Mecha. Hmmm...To be fair, perhaps the Monsters have their own "Monster Style(s)."

How I've always done it.

 

Other Ideas:

Fatiguing: Is Piloting one of the Mecha fatiguing? Perhaps the characters use their own Strength and Ground Movement in order to get the Mecha to "Perform," necessitating that they pay END for their own Strength and Ground movement (But not for the Mecha's...).

This would be the case with Pacific Rim Yaegers. They use "Reflex Controls" which means a harness attached to the pilot(s) body so the mecha mimics the pilots movements, so yes, the pilot has to expend END to move and attack. Yaeger pilots have to be in very good shape to implement extended combat scenarios.

 

Feedback: There is feedback when the Mecha is hit, causing the character(s) inside to take Stun Damage.

I got the impression that this was the case with Yaegers. Since there was a mind link with both the Yaeger and the two pilots, there seemed to be some (shared) feedback when the mecha took damage. I would write that up as a Side Effect of the Mind Link with the Yaeger.

 

Psychic Connection: Pilots are connected between each each Mecha, allowing them to share thoughts (Mind Link). If so, other powers could be built with this in mind, including "Danger Sense" when other Mecha are in Danger; Sharing END/Stun between Linked Pilots; Remote Sensing through other Pilots eyes.

Yes, when you have Mind Linked pilot/mecha, there are certain bonuses one should receive that disappear if the Mind Link is ever disrupted. In the case of a Yaeger, this is just about everything, as the Mind Link is absolutely necessary to even operate the thing. Have all equipment that could be effected by this take a Linked limitation to the Mind Link.

 

Mecha Souls: The Mecha's are actually living beings, with Souls & Minds (Though muted). This is akin to Neon Evangelion Genesis, but hopefully without the whining of Shinji. Berserk Mecha anyone?

This really wouldn't apply to Pacific Rim (I think). Though there might be precedent for a Yaeger and pilots long association allowing the Yaeger to share in the pilots consciousness even when the pilots aren't technically linked (where the Yaeger will move on its own to protect the pilots etc)

 

 

 

 

 

I had planned on using several of those suggestions already, actually!

 

The control scheme will be something like an exoskeleton suit that interfaces with the control pod and the pilot. The pilot's fighting skills are what will make the mecha powerful. It's a massive extension of the pilots body, so having them become fatigued while moving it around (because they will actually be walking/running to get it to move) is quite reasonable. Any martial technique the pilot knows can, potentially, be used by the mecha. Some of the more acrobatic moves may require the suit to have special equipment, like maneuvering jets or the like, but generally whatever they can do, they can try to coax it out of the mecha.

don't forget to have the pilots buy Movement Skill Levels and Combat Skill Levels with Yaeger combat. The Movement Skill Levels will make them a lot more maneuverable (familiarize yourself with what they can do. They are very versatile) and of course I'm sure you understand the utility in the CSL's with Yaeger combat.

 

I only have one player for this game (just running it for my wife) so I'm having "mechanics" maintain and outfit her mecha for the moment. Generally unless something special happens, the robot will not be changing much at first. All the points she gets will go to upgrading her pilot's skills in combat.

One thing the pilot(s) can do is purchase "special moves" by building a power, splitting the points between the pilots and adding the "Useable by Others" advantage (don't forget to account for mass) at which point they can perform the special move in any Yaeger they pilot. If you have Yaeger specific special moves, then that move is bought as part of the Yaeger's writeup, not the pilots.

 

There is a HOUSE RULE I use when I play games where pilots can use their personal special moves in mecha combat. The Pilot buys the special move, then when he uses it in mecha combat, I "scale" the power up to the level of the mecha. That means adding the equivalent of +1 Damage Class per level of size on the vehicle chart. For example, if a pilot buys a power that represents his powerful kicks that can knock opponents far away (6D6 Hand Attack: Double Knockback) and he uses that move while piloting a mecha that is size 10, then the move gets a +9 DC bonus for "scale" (+9D6 for a total of 15D6N + double knockback!) This isn't something that needs to be paid for, it's simply a rules adjustment to have the game fit the genre.

 

One thing I am doing right now is buying up the attributes of the vehicle to be roughly proportionate to those on the growth table. The only thing I'm not sure on how to simulate is the greater reach. Do I need to buy it Stretching?

Correct. Stretching is the proper way to do this. There was a suggestion for how much stretching you needed to buy based on the "height" of the vehicle in The Ultimate Vehicle. If you don't have that book (Has the 6th edition version of the Vehicles book come out yet?) I suggest you scare up a copy. It has some great suggestions for vehicular equipment inside. You could just have to do some light conversion work from 5th to 6th, but thats pretty easy.
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Just a point, but, at this scale, the cost is going to be enormous too.

 

If you want to take the idea that human scale and mecha/monster scale are effectively completely separate, how about building it with EDM?  Basically the pilot interface allows travel between humans scale and mecha scale.  It is the same world, just with (relatively) limited interaction*.

 

May sound silly, but if you build the pilot interface as an EDM, then you don't need to work out how massive everything is: just use a human scale for the monsters and mecha but in 'mecha scale' you are actually enormous.  may sound like cheating, possibly it is, and I would not allow it in any campaign that was not of this sort, but it will work and the builds will be much less unwieldy. 

 

 

 

* OK, mecha and monsters can kick over skyscapers, but that is just scenery.

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Its not really unweildy though, you just end up rolling lots of dice (for normal damage. killing damage should remain managable and well below 20d6 damage)

 

Its actually really easy to do, and the "scale" remains reasonable as long as you dont try throwing superheroes into the mix (superheroic characters throw the scale completely off kilter. its the focus on supers that also warps players perception on the proper interactions of scale in the system and makes them think it isnt possible. players need to completely divorce supers from their thoughts when tackling other genres that include scale objects such as mecha, starships etc. it is this perception that a powerful starship needs to be able to outclass a superhero that lead to the ridiculousness that was the Terran Empire sharship writeups)

 

The human character just need to remain human and you'll be okay. stay away from characteristics above 20, in fact, characteristics above 15 should be extraordinarily rare and remarkable. human characters in genres that deal heavily with scale improve their capabilities through skill, not through sheer characteristic inflation (this philosophy should translate to most heroic level gameplay where the character remain relatively realistic in capabilities, despite the presence of super powers, magic or psionics)

 

When you follow these guidelines, then begin to scale things up, you'll find that the scale works very well, if not perfectly. the biggest key is balancing the damage and defense ratios so everything makes sense. this takes a bit of playtesting but can be achieved.

 

In the case of something on the scale of Pacific Rim's Jaegers, a defense between 25 and 30 seems reasonable to me (how tall are theyagain? they strike me as being somewhere between size 15 and 20 on the vehicle size chart) defense 30 and you are bouncing the vast majority of rounds fired from a 120mm tank cannon (a reasonably designed cannon, not that monstrocity from the ultimate vehicle) and a kaiju with a str of 100 (20d6 normal damage ) would be hard pressed to damage the jaeger significantly, however on a critical hit (max damage) that's 10 body damage in a single hit which is 1/2 to 1/3 of the Jaeger's full Body score. they can only take a few blows like that before being in serious trouble. give the kaiju some weaponry that enhances that STR damage and it gets significantly more dangerous from there.

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As Long as nobody comes up with a "Megadamage" Advantage, then we're ok. :whistle:

 

~ M

 

 

That is why we have GMs :)

 

'Megadamage' (or, in this case, the ability to travel personally to the MechaScale rather than having to do so through a bulky focus) would be fine if you wanted a world of Mecha Monsters and Metapower (i.e. superheroes), but otherwise it would simply contravene campaign guidelines.  The aim is to have a game that is fun but as little fuss as possible to administer.  Unfortunately actually building huge monsters and vehicles (using two different sets of rules, as monsters are NOT vehicles) is bound to be a headache.

 

Whilst Hero gives you the ability to build anything*, it does not mean that you can do so in any individual game.  

 

 

 

*OK, not 'anything': Hero does not do absolutes.

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I had this idea that each level of x2 mass comes with a level of Damage Negation

 

Should be three levels if you do the maths as a doubling of mass = +3 Body, so you need to negate 3 points of Body damage, or 3DC to properly scale the effect of greater size.  Of course it is much cheaper to just buy defences as you do not need to worry about STUN damage for vehicles.

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Should be three levels if you do the maths as a doubling of mass = +3 Body, so you need to negate 3 points of Body damage, or 3DC to properly scale the effect of greater size.  Of course it is much cheaper to just buy defences as you do not need to worry about STUN damage for vehicles.

 

I...like this.  :shock:

 

Yes, it's w/vehicles, but w/Growth it also makes sense.

 

And the best thing is...No "M.D.C." or "Megadamage" type of Advantage.  YES!

 

Sorry...need to take my pink pillllllssss.

 

 

~ M

 

 

I've been playing waaaaayyyy to much Rifts....

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I'm telling ya. go with the vehicle size chart rather than what was laid out in the growth power. it has a tendancy to confuse people, whereas the vehicle size chart is structured very nicely including the "in-between" sizes and the suggestion of "1pt of damage negation per level fits perfectly.

 

VEHICULAR SIZE CHART!

What about the Monsters??

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I...like this.  :shock:

 

Yes, it's w/vehicles, but w/Growth it also makes sense.

 

And the best thing is...No "M.D.C." or "Megadamage" type of Advantage.  YES!

 

Sorry...need to take my pink pillllllssss.

 

 

~ M

 

 

I've been playing waaaaayyyy to much Rifts....

 

I'm like an infinite number of monkeys.  Occasionally something I say appears to make sense. ;)

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