Building a magic item creation system

[Kraven Kor]

I'm pretty sure that "dispel magic" on an enchantment placed on a sword would simply remove the enchantment, returning it to being an ordinary sword.

 

"Dispel magic" cast on a magic sword....one forged to be magical from its inception would destroy the sword itself.

 

Why?  Dispel does not permanently remove magic powers from a magic-using character; just the effects of said power.  Nor does the dispel power outline anywhere that it would destroy a focus.

 

Again, it begs the question "How does dispel work in your magic system?"  Sometimes the "dispel" power is not going to actually reflect what "dispel magic" could do in D&D terms.  "Disjunction" (a spell which specifically destroys magic items) would not be built using the "dispel" power; but rather (most likely) a killing attack that only damaged magic items.  Or a transform if you want to get all wonky with it.

[Markdoc]

I treat casting an enchantment on an item (ie; using a power with a focus) as different from creating permanent items. The former can always be dispelled, but the enchantment can simply be cast again, like any other power. For the latter, I use a custom modifier (-2, Independant). That permanently transfers the Xp to the item, so it cannot be destroyed by a dispel, any more than a character's own powers can be. The downside, of course is that it can be lost, stolen, physically destroyed, etc. But the upside is that it can be lent, or borrowed, and will persist past the maker's death (in my games, it's the only way to create permanent enchantments).

 

As a GM, it has the advantage that the need to "pay" Xp keeps a lid on the creation of magical items, which in consequence are quite rare.

 

cheers, Mark

[megaplayboy]

Price should be in the context of the campaign. "A King's ransom" is a real historical thing--it's a huge amount of money in the terms of the times. The cheapest magic items should be orders of magnitude less than a king's ransom. Perhaps the most priceless artifact in all existence might require the equivalent of emptying the Imperial Treasury to forge...

[mhd]

Price should be in the context of the campaign. "A King's ransom" is a real historical thing--it's a huge amount of money in the terms of the times. The cheapest magic items should be orders of magnitude less than a king's ransom.

That really depends on their scarcity and power, and is rather independent from "costs" as a rule term.

 

Never mind that I'd strongly advice against an actual "magic item economy" unless you're campaign is either a bit silly, completely disregarding economics anyway (with vaults full of gold) or that's an actual focus of the setting, with a very well-grounded "magic as tech" feature.

[Kraven Kor]

My setting:

 

 

 

[L. Marcus]

Broken image, Kor.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Why?  Dispel does not permanently remove magic powers from a magic-using character; just the effects of said power.  Nor does the dispel power outline anywhere that it would destroy a focus.

 

Again, it begs the question "How does dispel work in your magic system?"  Sometimes the "dispel" power is not going to actually reflect what "dispel magic" could do in D&D terms.  "Disjunction" (a spell which specifically destroys magic items) would not be built using the "dispel" power; but rather (most likely) a killing attack that only damaged magic items.  Or a transform if you want to get all wonky with it.

In older versions of HERO, Dispel, when used on power that came from a focus, it would destroy the focus if successful.  I notice the got toned it way down in 5th edition where it just causes the item to need minor repair, in which case it will start working again.

 

A good SFX for a Dispel that "breaks" foci is an EMP that fries electronics.

[Christougher]

In older versions of HERO, Dispel, when used on power that came from a focus, it would destroy the focus if successful.  I notice the got toned it way down in 5th edition where it just causes the item to need minor repair, in which case it will start working again.

 

A good SFX for a Dispel that "breaks" foci is an EMP that fries electronics.

 

I don't know what 6E says on the subject, but it's in the space between Dispel and Focus.  

 

Of course, I've built Dispel and added the Does Body advantage to build a power explicitly to destroy things.

 

Chris.

[Kraven Kor]

But destroying the focus, in general, does not "permanently remove the power from the character."

 

Most of the time, destroying a focus just means the character can't use the power until they can replace the focus, but for a few cases.

[NuSoardGraphite]

But destroying the focus, in general, does not "permanently remove the power from the character."

 

Most of the time, destroying a focus just means the character can't use the power until they can replace the focus, but for a few cases.

But in the case of a Heroic level game, where foci and characters are considered separate entities, what happens when you cast dispel on a magical item the character did not pay points for, but acquired during gameplay?

 

How do you handle a typical magical sword, who anyone could use (it's not tied to a character's writeup) having a successful dispel cast on it?

[Kraven Kor]

But in the case of a Heroic level game, where foci and characters are considered separate entities, what happens when you cast dispel on a magical item the character did not pay points for, but acquired during gameplay?

 

How do you handle a typical magical sword, who anyone could use (it's not tied to a character's writeup) having a successful dispel cast on it?

 

Exactly as the book recommends:

 

 

 

  The victim of a Dispel may “restart” the

Dispelled power, but he has to start from scratch

— he must perform any preparations again. This

means Dispel is more effective against powers that

are difficult to turn on or take a long time to activate

(like many Fantasy spells) or against objects

(which must be repaired, recharged, or rebuilt).

 

-----

 

 Focus: If a character Dispels a power in a Breakable

Focus, look at the special effects involved

to determine what happens. For example, if the

Dispel is defined as “breaking small objects,” the

Focus probably needs some repairs — maybe just

quick field jury-rigging, maybe something more

— before it will work again. If the Dispel involves

sucking all the battery power out of the Focus, the

Focus needs recharging. Unbreakable Foci behave

similarly, but are considered Difficult To Dispel

(x16) solely for purposes of resisting Dispel. If a

character Dispels only one power in a multiplepower

Focus, that power ceases to function until

“fixed,” while the other powers remain unaffected.

 

Basically, a dispel does not "destroy" a power; it turns that power off until the power can be re-activated.  Which, in the case of a focus, is up to the "reason from effect."  How does your dispel work, and what is the nature of the focus being affected?  

 

In my setting / system, the focus would need to be re-charged or re-prepared, and "dispel" suppresses and disperses magical energies.  A truly "independent" magic item would not be destroyed by dispel; but rather turned off for the duration of that scene or for up to a day, or until recharged in some fashion (most of my magic items require a "full day of recharging" using some arcane / magi-tek process, if they use charges.)

 

Note:  the new forums are, apparently, giving me fits and/or trying to make me look bad

[NuSoardGraphite]

 

Exactly as the book recommends:

 

 

 

 

Basically, a dispel does not "destroy" a power; it turns that power off until the power can be re-activated.  Which, in the case of a focus, is up to the "reason from effect."  How does your dispel work, and what is the nature of the focus being affected?  

 

In my setting / system, the focus would need to be re-charged or re-prepared, and "dispel" suppresses and disperses magical energies.  A truly "independent" magic item would not be destroyed by dispel; but rather turned off for the duration of that scene or for up to a day, or until recharged in some fashion (most of my magic items require a "full day of recharging" using some arcane / magi-tek process, if they use charges.)

 

Note:  the new forums are, apparently, giving me fits and/or trying to make me look bad

 

I can gel with that.

 

I think it would depend on the nature of the item in question as well.  Some fragile items might be outright destroyed (especially if they were Expendable).  More permanent items might only temporarily lose their power or will need to be "recharged" as you say.  That would be a good justification for a special quest...to find what you need to do to restore the item.  Maybe there is a rare spell that restores the magic to items that lost it (Transform?)

[Kraven Kor]

But again; if you want to "Destroy a Focus;" build a killing attack, not a dispel.

 

Dispel "turns a power off until it can be re-activated."  That's it.  It does not, and should not be used for, actual destruction of a focus or as the basis of any permanent effect.  (Naturally, just my take on it.)

 

This is why it is only 3 points per d6 and instant, instead of being built like a Drain with point return / fade rate.