Thoughts on Magical Items

[Spence]

So a couple threads here in the FH forums got me to thinking.  And I thought I’d share

 

Magical Items.  In most of the books I’ve read (excluding RPG based stories) magic items have always been unique and powerful items.  Unlike most RPG’s (most, not all)  where magical items have simply been delegated to serve as the replacement for the flashlight or to provide extra firepower or defense.   Now before anyone wigs out, I am not trying to bag on it.  That approach is pretty logical considering an RPG. 

 

You want to be able to give players magic items, but you also want to keep the items at a comparable power to that of the PC’s and the scenarios they are in.   You do NOT want to give the 1^st level fighter the awesome sword of planet cracking on adventure one. 

 

This can be a quandary for a class/level game relying on what are essentially pre-created magic items.  Yes you can always create new magic items, but you are still stuck in the need to match the magical items to the level/power of the players so it doesn’t over balance the game.

 

But Hero is different than most systems because we have direct access to the underlying rule structure. 

 

So I was toying with the idea of a magical items whose degree of power is not based on the magical device itself, but some characteristic of the wielder.   Preferably the Magic Item draws its strength from the person wielding it and there should (in my opinion) be a danger of the Item drawing too much and somehow threating the holder.   

 

Off the top of my head, using the wielders END comes right to mind.  But that isn’t what I am looking for.

 

I want it to be effect based.  A Sword that endows someone with enhanced fencing skill should draw off of the wielders skill or at least an applicable attribute.

 

This is all just a vague idea right now, but I would be interested in other people thoughts.. 

[Lord Liaden]

Hmm... first thing that comes to my mind is building at least some of the item's Powers with Requires A Skill Roll, and/or Requires A Characteristic Roll, based on whatever the wielding character has that's most appropriate. The higher the character's ability, the more of the Power he can reliably draw on. Maybe have some sort of Draining Side Effect.

 

I have to think more about the implications.

[Hyper-Man]

This is sort of what I was going for when I created my starting hero version of Green Lantern and his Power Ring.

 

As built, each Power Ring is identical but each Green Lantern may have different levels of ability in putting them to use beyond just a simple number of CSL's. 

 

I don't think such a complicated approach would work for every magic item in a Fantasy Hero setting but it could for some epic items.

[Christopher]

Hmm... first thing that comes to my mind is building at least some of the item's Powers with Requires A Skill Roll, and/or Requires A Characteristic Roll, based on whatever the wielding character has that's most appropriate. The higher the character's ability, the more of the Power he can reliably draw on. Maybe have some sort of Draining Side Effect.

it's a way, but the biggest problem would be that you have to nearly twice as much (once per phase you use the power of the item).

Or the items power would switch between "awesome" and "useless" per figth, because sometimes you do the fight-wide-roll and sometimes not.

 

My own 5 cent about the thematic:

1. There is the option to require a correlation between Characteristcis score and AP that is useable (as Hyper-Man did).

2. The current Rules allow Power Skill to be based on whatever atribute the player wants. This would allow the skill to be increased independant of the Characteristic, while still giving it an important role.

3. APG II 39/40 has rules about "using Characteristics other then STR to add damage to a HKA" - DEX for a Rapier, INT for a Spell, EGO for a Psionic HKA. You could even buy the power so that more then one Characteristic can add damage (Multiple Characteristics). No reason they cannot be exapanded to HA as well.

 

There should be an option to buy up the "Magic Item Relevant Part" without increasing the Characteristic. Several reasons: Not every characteristic is as cheap as every other (DEX), Characteristics Maxima could otherwise cap the power and finally someone with experience should be able to wield a weapon better then someone with "natural Skill".

[Hyper-Man]

it's a way, but the biggest problem would be that you have to (ROLL?) nearly twice as much (once per phase you use the power of the item).

Or the items power would switch between "awesome" and "useless" per figth, because sometimes you do the fight-wide-roll and sometimes not.

 

...

 

The character could spend XP to buy a Naked buyoff of the Requires A Roll Limiation (which is what I did with Hal in my GL example).

 

75 He's a Natural with the Ring!: Custom Power - Naked Buyoff of Requires Skill Roll to change & Requires EGO Roll to use powers in Ring VPP (75 Active Points)

 

The explanation in Hal's case was that he essentially had a LOT of saved XP (good Karma) before the Ring found him. 

Anyone can put on a charged GL Ring and use it but they'll have to deal with the built in Limitations.

[Nadrakas]

This is sort of what I was going for when I created my starting hero version of Green Lantern and his Power Ring.

 

As built, each Power Ring is identical but each Green Lantern may have different levels of ability in putting them to use beyond just a simple number of CSL's. 

 

I don't think such a complicated approach would work for every magic item in a Fantasy Hero setting but it could for some epic items.

Forgive me, but I didn't think that Unified Power could be applied to a VPP.  Wouldn't that be like trying to apply Linked? (Which can't be done...)

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong on this...

 

 

~ M

[Hyper-Man]

Forgive me, but I didn't think that Unified Power could be applied to a VPP.  Wouldn't that be like trying to apply Linked? (Which can't be done...)

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong on this...

 

 

~ M

It's a GM call.  I look at it this way. 

Let's model an M16 rifile with an underslung M203 Grenade Launcher.  The typical way to build this in Hero is with a Multipower.  If some sort of of Dispel or Drain based effect is used vs. the non-AOE bullet attacks it usually makes sense that the whole weapon is being disabled (including the M203) but by a strict interpretation of the RAW the M203 would NOT be affected (it's a separate Mulitpower Slot).  If a GM is going to rule that both Slots ARE affected he is then making a defacto enforcement of the Unified Power Limitation.  This is why I personally believe most if not ALL weapon Frameworks should have the Unified Power Limitation (the exception would be a Focus of Opportunity Framework).

 

Here's an example from the JLA vs. Avengers Comic:

 

Photon is draining the 'Oan Energy' from GL's Ring. 

There are 2 ways to model this

1. Her 'Drain' based Power has the appropriate multiple powers affected Advantages (very expensive and complicated).

2. His Ring's VPP has the Unified Power Limitation (much easier).

[Hyper-Man]

A similar type of reasoning is why there are special rules for a Powered Armor character built with OIF (-1/2) vs. one built with OIHID (-1/4).  The Focus build essentially enforces a Unified-Like distribution of effects whenever any Body damage exceeds the defenses provided by the Armor itself.

[Nadrakas]

It's a GM call.  I look at it this way. 

Let's model an M16 rifile with an underslung M203 Grenade Launcher.  The typical way to build this in Hero is with a Multipower.  If some sort of of Dispel or Drain based effect is used vs. the non-AOE bullet attacks it usually makes sense that the whole weapon is being disabled (including the M203) but by a strict interpretation of the RAW the M203 would NOT be affected (it's a separate Mulitpower Slot).  If a GM is going to rule that both Slots ARE affected he is then making a defacto enforcement of the Unified Power Limitation.  This is why I personally believe most if not ALL weapon Frameworks should have the Unified Power Limitation (the exception would be a Focus of Opportunity Framework).

 

Hero 6e, page 140 (Hero 6e, page 109

 

"If a character uses Adjustment Powers such as Drain to reduce or decrease a Power Framework, he must reduce the individual slots rather than the base pool of points. Reducing the base pool of points doesn’t affect the individual slots unless the slots are also reduced."

 

 

I understand what you're saying about the Unified Power and Power Frameworks, and it is allowed in Hero Designer (It's the Official Program...but I won't always rely on it as the "End All, Be All" for any rules adjudication.  That's what the books & questioning here under Rules Questions are for -- or just going with "GM Decision").

 

It does make sense from a Certain Point of View, one that I've never really thought about.

 

 

You could build each weapon, the M4 (old M-16) and the M203, as a separate Power Framework (more expensive) or go with what you've done with the Unified Power.  Only thing is, do most of you're Power Frameworks have the Unified Powers Limitations applied to reflect the ability of Drains to affect the entirety of the Power Framework (At least the Power Framework that make sense that is...)?

 

 

~ M