Merlin273 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm looking to build "Psychic Paper" as seen in Doctor Who. When shown to a person, it could usually induce them to see whatever the user wished them to see printed on it. However, it proved useless on people with strong, disciplined minds (such as geniuses or those with psychic ability). I'm thinking maybe... Mental Illusions or Images Doesn't really work well on people with high INT scores (15+) and can be resisted by Mental Defense IAF (looks like paper) ...or maybe it can be done by Telepathy with the paper as a Focus. Any thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockham's Spoon Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I think Mental Illusions through a Focus is exactly what you want. Strong/disciplined minds will be less affected just through the basic mechanics of Mental Illusions. I am only passingly familiar with Dr. Who, and not at all with psychic paper so take the following for what it is worth, but if I were building such a thing I would add Trigger to the Mental Illusions so the paper could be pre-loaded with an image and the mentalist who set it up wouldn't have to be present when it was used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Noooo. Reason from EFFECT, not from what you see on the screen. What does psychic Paper do? It gives you proper credentials to be anywhere. Therefore they are a perk. I figure that being able to go anywhere has got to have around the same access as the best thing you can be (aka an Emperor) so:10 Psychic Paper Fringe Benefit: Complete access to anywhere (20pts); OAF (Psychic Paper) (-1) (you may also allow those with 10 pts of mental defense to see though the illusion, YMMV) Too many people spend way too much time thinking about how it seems to work in the source and not about what it actually DOES. When you build powers/Equipment etc in Hero you are concerned with what is the power doing? How does it effect others. How it works etc is Special effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm not sure "complete access to anywhere" is only worth 10 points. Plus, can't it be used as credentials for other things as well? Like showing that work for the Feds when dealing with local cops who would otherwise be arresting you? Shouldn't it be able to do everything/anything a forged document could do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I haven't watched much of the New Who, but the few instances I've seen look like the Disguise skill to me. He looks like someone that's supposed to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm not sure "complete access to anywhere" is only worth 10 points. Plus, can't it be used as credentials for other things as well? Like showing that work for the Feds when dealing with local cops who would otherwise be arresting you? Shouldn't it be able to do everything/anything a forged document could do? It's 20 points with an OAF also you could call it Anything Credentials. Allows complete access or authority as needed. Based it off the cost of being Emperor. Figured that being Emperor was close to the kind of authority that the Psychic Paper could give to a canny user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Somehow I didn't realize the 10 points was after the Limitation. My bad. It still seems off to me. I guess it would depend on how useful it is in game, which may vary a lot between campaigns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Found it on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychic_paper#Psychic_paper As I understand it, it is almost exclusively used as "Universal Passport/Zertificate/Writ that says whatever I want it to say". If that was D&D I would say "+X to Bluff". But there is no clear "Bluff" skill in HERO. So maybe a Generic Presence Bonus with Limitations? APG II 49 has the "Psionic (-1/2)" Limitation. It should be taken into consideration for this build: "This Limitation represents a power that simulates a psionic ability — which means it should only work when other minds are present, not when inanimate objects are involved. [...] it’s intended for abilities that normally would apply to “mental” and “nonmental” situations. Examples include Combat Skill Levels, Danger Sense, [...]." For example "Psionic Invisibility" could be build as powerfull Mental Illusion (wich is costly and does not always work) - or as Invisibility to Sight, Psionic (-1/2). The paper has been used as Receiver for psychic messages, but that one was so rare it propably was only a plot device. Often it was even how the adventure started in the first place. So it's a Plot device, not a player power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Bluff would fall under Acting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Bluff would fall under Acting. It could fall under Acting. Or Persuasion (wich is also about telling lies). Or Oratory (wich is Persuasion vs Crowd and explicitly invovles a lie). Or a Presence Attack. It never seems clear wich one to use. I guess to be save we could modify/use the build of Striking Appereance: "+5 PRE (5 Active Points), Only For Interaction Skill Roll And Presence Attack Bonuses Where Appearance Might Be A Factor (-1) (total cost: 3 (rounded up to allow for difference between “all characters” and “limited group of characters”); or also add Only Among Specific Group (-1) (total cost: 2 points)." If we replace "Where Appearance Might Be A Factor" with "where having a specific paper would be a factor" and asume that Psychic equates to "limited Group" a simple 2 CP per +1/+1D6 seems fitting. About "how to prevent geniuses from being affected": That depends 100% on how you define a genius/would write up everyone that ever got identified as a genius. Wich are not many. But for simplicity I would just asume that everytime the roll failed (wich is hard despite the bonus) the paper "appeared blank/unreadable". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Persuasion isn't about telling lies. It's about changing another's view to reflect your own. Now, on acting: Jason Nesmith: Mathesar, there's no such person as Captain Taggart. My name is Jason Nesmith. I'm an actor. We're all actors. Sarris: He doesn't understand. Explain as you would a child. Jason Nesmith: We, uh, we pretended. [On Malthesar's blank look] Jason Nesmith: We lied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Persuasion isn't about telling lies. It's about changing another's view to reflect your own. The first sentence tells differently: "Characters with this Interaction Skill can convince, persuade, or influence individuals, or tell believable lies." The same is written under Oratory (wich is Persuasion vs. Crowds). What the paper is used for could be put under Actings "impersonate another character" (a generic guy with a valid ticket/a vald license/a passport for his name). Acting even has the advantage that it is countered by a INT-Roll. But wich skill to use can easily end up in phylosophical discussion about how to use what skill and wheter to use interaction skills at all. Hence the Extra Presence/modified Striking Appereance: Clear, generic, Covers many cases regardless of wich skill(s) are used.effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 +X to Forgery, Limitation: Psychic (Visible to Mental Awareness, target resists with Skills Vs Skill roll using either INT or EGO, whichever is higher, and +1 to roll per 5 pts of Mental Defense) Bought as Levels, not as the Skill, because whoever holds the paper needs SOME idea what it's supposed to show to be convincing. Make it +20 or +30 and invoke the Extraordinary Skill rule (can do the impossible at -10) Lucius Alexander Yes sir, says here you are authorized to requisition as much as you can carry on one palindromedary, including the restricted items...your visit and the items taken are strictly Top Secret...you don't have to sign for anything...give me a moment to unlock the vault for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 +X to Forgery, Limitation: Psychic (Visible to Mental Awareness, target resists with Skills Vs Skill roll using either INT or EGO, whichever is higher, and +1 to roll per 5 pts of Mental Defense) Bought as Levels, not as the Skill, because whoever holds the paper needs SOME idea what it's supposed to show to be convincing. Make it +20 or +30 and invoke the Extraordinary Skill rule (can do the impossible at -10) Lucius Alexander Yes sir, says here you are authorized to requisition as much as you can carry on one palindromedary, including the restricted items...your visit and the items taken are strictly Top Secret...you don't have to sign for anything...give me a moment to unlock the vault for you Actually it doesn't work that way. People look at the paper and see what credentials they expect to see. Which is why I just used Fringe Benefit and focused it. Quick, clean and easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 The problem with the Perk approach is that, as built, it doesn't simulate the possibility of failure as shown in the series. High Intelligence could also see through it. It might be a matter of just better definining the Limitations on the Perk. also see: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Psychic_paper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Uncontrolled (effect based on target's expectations)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 The problem with the Perk approach is that, as built, it doesn't simulate the possibility of failure as shown in the series. High Intelligence could also see through it. It might be a matter of just better defining the Limitations on the Perk. also see: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Psychic_paper Yeah, I pointed out that there would probably be a limitation for either making an Ego Roll at certain penalties and/or Mental Defenses. I was hoping that someone would pick up the idea and run with it a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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