Irish characters in the United States circa the 1920s: how much discrimination do they face?

[Ragitsu]

Essentially, will they be experiencing significant social hurdles in their journey as a pulp investigator?

[Roter Baron]

This is an excerpt from wikipedia:

"In 2002, English journalist Julie Burchill narrowly escaped prosecution for incitement to racial hatred, following a column in The Guardian where she described Ireland as being synonymous with "child molestation, Nazi-sympathising, and the oppression of women."

Burchill had expressed anti-Irish sentiment several times throughout her career, announcing in the London journal Time Out that "I hate the Irish, I think they're appalling".

 

In 2012, The Irish Times carried a report on anti-Irish prejudice in Britain. It claimed that far-right British nationalist groups continued to use "anti-IRA" marches as "an excuse to attack and intimidate Irish immigrants". Shortly before the 2012 Summer Olympics, British athlete Daly Thompson made an anti-Irish statement on live television. When Thompson was shown an image of a runner with a misspelt tattoo, he said that the person responsible for the misspelling must have been Irish. The BBC issued an apology.

 

In Australia, some employers are issuing a policy of "No Irish Need Apply", in response to the influx of Irish immigrants since the recession.

On 8 August 2012, an article appeared in Australian newspapers titled "Punch Drunk: Ireland intoxicated as Taylor swings towards boxing gold".

The article claimed that Katie Taylor was not "what you'd expect in a fighting Irishwoman, nor is she surrounded by people who'd prefer a punch to a potato". The journalist who wrote it apologised for "indulging racial sterotypes".

 

The following day, Australian commentator Russell Barwick asserted that athletes from Ireland should compete for the British Olympic team, likening it to "an Hawaiian surfer not surfing for the USA". When fellow presenter Mark Chapman explained that the Republic of Ireland was an independent state, Barwick remarked: "It's nothing but an Irish joke".

 

On 25 June 2013, In an Orange Order HQ in Everton, Liverpool an Irish Flag was burned. Considering that Liverpool is a city with many second and third-generation Irish immigrants, this was seen by members of Liverpool's Irish community as a hate crime.

 

In response to the relatively high numbers of Irish immigrants being murdered in Australia, the parent's of one victim, David Greene who was attacked and killed in August 2012, have issued wallet sized cards to be given to any Irish people travelling to Australia, with a list of the names and contact details for people who need help in the form of legal assistance or advice if they are attacked."

 

Nothing deals with discrimination against the Irish in America in the 1920s but with incidents in the UK and Australia in the 21st century!

 

I am appalled and was totally unaware of this. But if anti-Irish discrimination seems to be alive and well in some corners of the Commonwealth I would bet my behind that is was dancing and kicking in the 1920s with the background of utter prejudices in the 19th century, Irish gansterism rising and the Fight for Irish Independence and the following civil war just around the corner.

 

I would guess that an pronounced Irish characteristic would not "damage" a hero socially as severely as being Asian or black, but it would clearly mark him as an uncouth hick from a backwards culture slightly less barbaric than any of the aforementioned.

 

I would rank him "above" Blacks, Asians, Jews and Mexicans, below English, Scots, Germans, Swiss, Scandinavians, the Dutch and French, and on par with Italians and Slavic nationalities in the 20s perception of unequality.

But it might also depend where you are and how influential the Irish community is - less damaging in Boston, bad in the South with most Irish being Catholic and a rising anti-Catholic KKK.

[assault]

Social class would be the main factor.

[assault]

I'll have a closer look at Roter Baron's post, but my first impression is that he has found a couple of isolated cases.

 

That said, the influx of Irish immigrants is real. I've noted it mainly because my favourite pub is run by the local Irish club.

[Roter Baron]

I guess they are. I don't think and don't wish to imply that Australia is a hotbed of anti-Irish agitation.

 

All I am saying is if there still are some isolated outbreaks that can make the news, then I guess the early 20th century, when PC was unheard of of and dicrimination against certain people the norm, natural and expected, was rather rich in anti-Irishness in certain quarters.

 

Of course - as always: Having money and/ or power helps to be insulatted against discrimination.

[Ragitsu]

Edit: Nevermind.

[Tasha]

I think the answer to that question is to beg the question by asking "Where in the US?" I think that by the 20's most of the US had gotten over the Irish Immigrants. The ones that still had issues were Jewish and Italian (or Sicilian) immigrants. Though by the time of the "gangster era" the Jewish folk were more or less starting to gain a lot of mainstream acceptance. Where the new Italian Immigrants were facing what the Jewish and Irish did years ago. This assumes the North East. I think that the Irish had an easier time gaining acceptance in Appalachia and the South. Most of those issues were around during the Civil War, and went away after the war ended.

[Vondy]

I think the answer to that question is to beg the question by asking "Where in the US?" I think that by the 20's most of the US had gotten over the Irish Immigrants. The ones that still had issues were Jewish and Italian (or Sicilian) immigrants. Though by the time of the "gangster era" the Jewish folk were more or less starting to gain a lot of mainstream acceptance. Where the new Italian Immigrants were facing what the Jewish and Irish did years ago. This assumes the North East. I think that the Irish had an easier time gaining acceptance in Appalachia and the South. Most of those issues were around during the Civil War, and went away after the war ended.

 

Even more so, Irishmen were disproportionately represented in law enforcement in many northeastern US cities. So much so in New York that there was a period (which included the interwar period) where anyone who wasn't Irish who rose above the rank of captain was an exception to the rule. The same was true in Boston and, to a lesser degree, farther west, Chicago.

[assault]

Checking out RB's examples: there is a problem with violent a$$hats in Australia. The Irish aren't disproportionately targeted. Next weekend is Australia Day, the traditional day for a certain layer of Australians to show they are subhuman settler scum, swept to the end of the world from more civilised countries.

 

Anti-Irish prejudice was, historically a thing in Australia. In late 1918-19, before the flu epidemic hit, the Irish flag was banned in Australia, alongside the Red flag. "Irish Republicanism = Bad" for British Empire loyalists. The flu mainly had the effect of stopping the anti-Russian (often Jewish) pograms. Prejudices remained.

 

Its grassroots manifestations were all over the place. In particular, Lutheran Germans and Catholic Irish marriages weren't uncommon, and provided the more interesting parts of my family.

 

I mentioned "Catholic". That was a thing too. As late as the 40s, my great-grandmother, born ~1878, was griefing her daughter about her marrying a Catholic. He was from Scotland (Glasgow), in this case, but it is quite likely that his family was originally from Ireland. My great-grandma was from Yorkshire.

 

In modern day Australia, such prejudices are the preserve of the very old and the very stupid. We don't have anywhere near the proportion of fundamentalist Christians as in the US. They are, in their own way, a bunch of despised marginal freaks here.

 

To get back to my original comment: Paddy Kelly the knockabout boxer faces a different situation from Doctor Patrick Kelly the eminent scientist.

[lou_tennant]

The Irish (in general) faced a lot less racial aggression/prejudice in America in 1920's than they did in London for instance.

 

The Irish had been migrating to America since the early opportunities of the 'Land Rush' that took place in ~1888-1895 - especially in Oklahoma, and almost all of them came through New York. So the Irish were very much part of New York by the 1920's.

 

Most of the Social 'restrictions' related to the type of positions and reputations that they had earn during that those ~30 years. Plenty of Irish-Americans when growing up and starting the 2nd generation of I-A.

 

I generally work on a Social Limitation : Irish for 5pts - whereas in London around the same era I would normally suggest 10pts.

[st barbara]

Another point to be remembered is that, at least in Chicago, their were a lot of Irish mobsters in the 20's before the Sicilians under Capone and company pushed them out.

[Ranxerox]

According to this article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment, anti-Irish sentiment in the US reached it peak in the 1850s.  So, by the 1920s such prejudice had been on the wane for a long time.  So I'm inclined to think that even 5 pts is too much of a social limitation for being Irish.

 

st barbara is right about the whole crime thing though.  You can watch the Boardwalk Empire series for examples of this (something I would recommend doing regardless if you are campaigning in this era).

[st barbara]

Another resource about Irish crime in the United States is an old television show entitled (I think) "Paddywhacked". I saw it years ago and have no idea whether it might be available or not.