Advancing Characters

[lou_tennant]

I am planning on moving 20-30 years from 1 campaign to seed a new one, and have original characters show up at times. Potentially characters from 20-30 years ago will be played along new characters and so I have been giving some thought to experience points for this 20-30 year period.

 

I was wondering if others had done this, had thought about it, had guidelines they had used in the past for dramatic time advance and 'blanket' EPs to fill in the period.

 

My initial thoughts:

• A large portion of the EPs will go to knowledge, professional and 'day-to-day' work skills.
• It should vary from individual to individual - EPs already do when players switch between characters at different times - so _some_ variation is to be expected and is accepted. How much should it 'swing'?
• I don't think that the EP gain should be based on any particular Characteristics.
• The rate will be nothing akin to full-on adventuring as will not have been intense and the threat is likely to have been a lot lower.
• I would not expect there to be EPs for good role-playing, as I am not looking to 'play' the intervening period - though once a structure/total time and rough events 'along the way' have been worked out I will encourage players to create a story to cover the period.  I would consider bonus points being available for good role-play in the writing of this.
• I had considered that the EP gain will reduce over the period as day-to-day existence reveals less that is unknown to the character - therefore less of an 'experience'.
• I had thought something around 3-4 points a year with a small variation (perhaps based on 3d6), with some of the points being assigned by the GM, certain disadvantages should also be targeted to be bought off - afterall, how long can one person remain 'young, innocent & naive'?

Cheers for any thoughts.

[Christougher]

Unless you want these older characters to completely outclass the newer ones, consider giving them *no* XP.  

 

At 3-4 XP per year, that's 60-120 XP, a huge amount.  I've given out *one* XP for a year passing game time before, but that was a crew bottled up on a spaceship with nothing to do.  You've got to be out there doing things to earn experience, IMO.  

 

Chris.

[Lucius]

 

I believe some earlier editions actually had guidelines for something like 1 XP per 6 months.

 

Some arguments:

 

10 pts in maneuvers are considered a black belt, and I remember reading that a student can expect to reach black belt after 4 years of steady learning and practice. That suggests about 2.5 XP per yr.

 

A simple 2 pt Professional Skill is supposed to be enough to earn a living at that trade. Many trades can be learned in a 2 year Associate's degree program or an even shorter apprenticeship. That suggests as little as 1 pt per yr, if we assume that someone in such a program is effectively learning nothing else in that time.

 

I studied a foreign language for 7 yrs straight and doubt I ever got past the 3 pt level. On the other hand someone learning by immersion (actually living among native speakers) could probably reach the 2 pt level in less than half a year.

 

Ultimately of course it's up to you how much XP to give out for passage of time.

 

 

 

As for variance, Hero used to have a concept called "wagering experience." A character would risk 1 or 2 XP on a challenge with a good chance of failure; success means the XP doubles, failure means the XP is lost. You could possibly try asking each player if they want to take an extra XP every 2nd year, or roll for either 0 or 2.

 

Or you could take an idea from Runequest (Basic Role Playing) where the better you are at a skill, the harder it is to improve; roll for each Skill and each one that FAILS gains 2 XP.

 

 

 

Not everything necessarily improves. Skills can be forgotten and Skills and other abilities may degrade from lack of use or the effects of age. Someone with 4 Combat Skill levels at the age of 40 may only have 2 at the age of 50. STR, CON, DEX, all could deteriorate even in 10 years time. Lightning Reflexes may slow, Combat Luck run out.

 

Similarly, Disadvantages or Complications may be, not necessarily bought of, but rewritten. The once young and naïve character may have acquired a persistent enemy, or picked up a few scars.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Some things may be so central to a character concept that they should never be deleted.

[Greywind]

That's assuming that all XP earned in a given time is directed at one skill/ability. People learn multiple things simultaneously.

[Scott Baker]

I like your ideas. My chief thought is that you need to understand 2 areas: 1) the state of the world--events, etc.--over the intervening time; 2) evaluate the characters to see how active they may have been--disads/complications and their previous back story will highly influence this.Then I would try to use these, along with previous XP awards to determine how much to award for the intervening time.

 

You already mentioned that the overall threat level was lower--lower the XP award level. As for characters, some may be more active--if someone doesn't age, for example, they don't have a common reason that people slow down over time--dont adjust the XP award level. Others may "retire" due to age--lower the XP award level.

 

I hope that give you some idea of what I am thinking.

 

I (relatively) recently had to work out something similar for a character of mine. I've been playing him off-and-on for 27 years (both real and game time). That's multiple campaigns in the same world. In my particular case, for this latest campaign, where he's effectively an NPC, I took our current XP awards to determine the base rate, then looked at activity, etc. There were some obvious updates to his disads, he has points in bases that he didn't have before, and has a whole slew of new skills (culled from my notes of what he was going to be working on from the last time I was actively working with the character).

 

In short, I think you have the right idea already.Hopefully something I wrote makes sense to you or helps clarify your thinking.

[lou_tennant]

Thanks for all these suggestions guys, I think that we all seemed to be on the same wave-length in terms of balancing the gained based upon how active the character has been and how they have aged.

 

Other things I have been considering:

• Has the character amassed some amount of wealth, a retirement plan - sort of - and other resources. This would have to be based on the kind of earnings vs. commitments/responsibilities.  This would account for some EPs.
• If they take an Age disadvantage then characteristics will degrade or have to be maintained - at extra effort.
• Contacts, Favours, Perks and similar are all elements that people [typically] pick up over time.
• I have been thinking of the EPs based on 'Failed' Skill rolls (AS Lucius suugests), BRPS, DQ/RQ and other systems like this method and it has worked well in the past in campaigns we have played under these systems.
• I feel there should be some random element - not catastrophic - that throws up challenges, changes of direction, or similar for characters to work/deal with.
• Skills can be forgotten and this would be in conjunction with what a character has been doing.

 

Wagering is something else I had considered, potentially allowing players to have an element of control over 'significant' events that occur.

 

Also, if I am Indiana Lecturer for 20 years and remain in the classroom then I will be different from Professor Jones who is 'let out of the classroom' every so often to collect some Dingus from some strange place.  The Lecturer may change very little, his physique is likely to diminish whilst his academia will increase - his disadvantages will change and he may add the odd 'bad habit'. Professor Jones may not change much (physique might be maintained) but my KS will expand as I visit new places and learn about new cultures.

 

 

Some great stuff here, and I am interested by the discussion and comments that this topic has created.

[Christopher]

I see three basic approaches:

1. Don't give extra XP, but allow partial rewrites. Complications might have changed. Skills have been forgotten or degraded from disuse. A Character could rewrite his 20 Year old guys into a 40 Year old guy with first signs of aging, while still staying at the same total points.

Yes, Obi-Wan did learn the whole "reappear as a ghost after death" thing, but both he and Vader got older (and slower) regarding lightsaber combat.

 

2. As 1, but also give some XP only for non-combat stuff. If you use "Resource Points" (APG I), they could be spend for that. But mostly they are towards Perqs and new Skills (like PS, KS, AK). But even that could fall under rewrite. After being 20 Years in Arcadia you knowledge of Middelheim (where you Character originall came from) might have reduced to a 8-.

 

3. As 2, but also give some freely useable XP. But that has the biggest danger of "the old guys" hanging off any newcommer.

[lou_tennant]

I see three basic approaches:

1. Don't give extra XP, but allow partial rewrites. Complications might have changed. Skills have been forgotten or degraded from disuse. A Character could rewrite his 20 Year old guys into a 40 Year old guy with first signs of aging, while still staying at the same total points.

Yes, Obi-Wan did learn the whole "reappear as a ghost after death" thing, but both he and Vader got older (and slower) regarding lightsaber combat.

 

2. As 1, but also give some XP only for non-combat stuff. If you use "Resource Points" (APG I), they could be spend for that. But mostly they are towards Perqs and new Skills (like PS, KS, AK). But even that could fall under rewrite. After being 20 Years in Arcadia you knowledge of Middelheim (where you Character originall came from) might have reduced to a 8-.

 

3. As 2, but also give some freely useable XP. But that has the biggest danger of "the old guys" hanging off any newcommer.

 

I have been looking at a combination of the above.

 

They have X amount of free time to develop whatever they want - so some free EPs.

Their career has moved on so skill have adapted to suit this - some reduced, others increase and a few new ones learnt - so allocated EPs and/or restricted EPs.

They have aged, without mystical intervention, this has an effect on us all and it becomes harder to maintain your physique as you get older - once again some adapted RP distribution, and possibly increased cost using the Age Disadvantage - though some EPs will be assigned just for characteristics.

Alteration/Removal of Disadvantages is possible, and working with the player to build this into the storyline in the intervening years.

Also some EPs allocated to contacts, resources, etc.

 

I accept that the older characters will have more points, but that is always the case with characters that have been played for longer. I am also being careful that the older (more experienced) characters will have a different role/skills within the storyline.

 

After all, if you are not 'down with da kids' then I don't care how many points you have, some things you won't get a chance at 'old man'.

• "Yo, Grandpa, what you doin', you don't belong here." Whilst the junior member gets a different response; "What'cha need Bro, sure thing I'll let you know."

 

The balance I am working on will be how players can apply their characters points distribution to tackle things in a different way. Also more experienced villains might have become 'complacent' or 'over-confident' with their network of contacts and resources on tap - only to find it accounts for nothing when the main good-guy is staring them in the face and is younger and fitter.

[Beast]

Aaron Allston's Strikeforce  had heroes in their starting form and after they had been adventuring a while