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4 hours ago, ScottishFox said:

 

According to the article the fire activity is slightly below average for the last 15 years.

 

Wiki also has this.

 

While it is SUPER bad to be destroying the rain forest - I'm not sure why it was initially reported in such apocalyptic terms.  2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007 and 2010 were all much worse and 2016 was nearly as bad.

 

image.png.9a7f64915f496b992be6c73d3ccaae29.png

 

I'm wondering what the actual acreage burned is from year to year.  It seems like that might be a better indication of seriousness than the number of fires.  One huge long-burning fire might destroy as much as ten smaller short-term fires combined. 

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1 minute ago, BoloOfEarth said:

I'm wondering what the actual acreage burned is from year to year.  It seems like that might be a better indication of seriousness than the number of fires.  One huge long-burning fire might destroy as much as ten smaller short-term fires combined.

 

That's a good point.  Though, given the huge numbers of fires (10s of thousands) I wonder if the volume of samples doesn't drive towards a pretty consistent acres/fire number.

 

Did a quick survey of some other charts on the internet and it seems like the #1 problem is not fires, but deforestation by people and their governments.

 

I guess fire just makes for better apocalyptic news footage.

 

 

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Your chart shows that 2019 is already one of the worst years for fires and it’s only August. 

 

Also it’s not as though the rainforest has ever been given a chance to grow back. It’s now approaching some actually apocalyptic tipping points with respect to minimum size. 

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18 minutes ago, Old Man said:

Your chart shows that 2019 is already one of the worst years for fires and it’s only August. 

 

The chart is not comparing full years to partial 2019.

 

It is comparing all years shown from Jan 1 to Aug 26 of each year so that the comparison is equitable.

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1 minute ago, Logan.1179 said:

 

So, the latest projections have Dorian scraping us off the map. I haven't been hit full force by a hurricane since I moved here, but I never had one aimed so perfectly before either. Should be fun.

 

I'd appreciate if you stayed alive. We're kind of fond of you... and I need your votes for polls and things!

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Serious question---

 

I'm putting that out there because I already know it doesn't sound like it.

 

I've been hearing, on-and-off, for my entire life "save the rainforest" and "give to these various charities that are defending the rainforest."

 

My question is this:

 

Are there any organizations that are collecting money to _buy_  it?  I mean really.  It seems like over the decades enough money has been raised for various factions of saving the rainforest to have made serious in-roads here.   Start buying it up a few acres at a time and put great big GTFO signs on it.

 

No-- I'm not looking to start a shouting match; I'm not looking a list of ten thousand reasons of why it can't be done.  Buying up land seems to be working out okay for anyone else who wants to control it, so I've just been kind of wondering.  Google wasn't much help on this, or I'd have left you folks alone.

 

 

Duke

 

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9 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

Serious question---

 

I'm putting that out there because I already know it doesn't sound like it.

 

I've been hearing, on-and-off, for my entire life "save the rainforest" and "give to these various charities that are defending the rainforest."

 

My question is this:

 

Are there any organizations that are collecting money to _buy_  it?  I mean really.  It seems like over the decades enough money has been raised for various factions of saving the rainforest to have made serious in-roads here.   Start buying it up a few acres at a time and put great big GTFO signs on it.

 

No-- I'm not looking to start a shouting match; I'm not looking a list of ten thousand reasons of why it can't be done.  Buying up land seems to be working out okay for anyone else who wants to control it, so I've just been kind of wondering.  Google wasn't much help on this, or I'd have left you folks alone.

 

 

Duke

 

 

Sounds like a good plan to me, but I have to wonder how well one can enforce it? you can't just buy the land and say 'Keep off the grass' you have to hire reliable security or else some farmer will eventually try to tear down land that 'isn't being used anyway' and grow the #$#$ out of things on it while they can. Or, bitter at the land they can't have, some dingus will start a forest fire out of spite.

 

Did I mention I don't trust primates?

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

Serious question---

 

I'm putting that out there because I already know it doesn't sound like it.

 

I've been hearing, on-and-off, for my entire life "save the rainforest" and "give to these various charities that are defending the rainforest."

 

My question is this:

 

Are there any organizations that are collecting money to _buy_  it?  I mean really.  It seems like over the decades enough money has been raised for various factions of saving the rainforest to have made serious in-roads here.   Start buying it up a few acres at a time and put great big GTFO signs on it.

 

No-- I'm not looking to start a shouting match; I'm not looking a list of ten thousand reasons of why it can't be done.  Buying up land seems to be working out okay for anyone else who wants to control it, so I've just been kind of wondering.  Google wasn't much help on this, or I'd have left you folks alone.

 

 

Duke

 

 

Rainforest Trust does this.

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7 hours ago, ScottishFox said:

 

That's a good point.  Though, given the huge numbers of fires (10s of thousands) I wonder if the volume of samples doesn't drive towards a pretty consistent acres/fire number.

 

Did a quick survey of some other charts on the internet and it seems like the #1 problem is not fires, but deforestation by people and their governments.

 

I guess fire just makes for better apocalyptic news footage.

 

 

No, there's a direct connection.  Since Europeans starting settling the region the fastest and easiest method to clear the rain forest for farming or ranching has been with fire. And the farmers and ranchers have to keep clearing more, because the soil under the former jungle can't sustain prolonged agriculture or animal husbandry without exhausting its nutrients. Brazil's current President Bolsonaro is very pro-development, and since taking office he's encouraged land exploitation by loosening regulations for appropriating land, rolling back protected status for wild lands, and diminishing funding for government environmental oversight. Although Bolsonaro has accused various scapegoats of starting the current wave of fires, few outside his base of support are buying that his government's actions haven't exacerbated the problem.

 

And Old Man made a very important point above: however the current fires compare to past years, the rain forest has been in retreat from human encroachment for generations. Most environmentalists agree that it's now in danger of reaching a point where not only is that past loss unrecoverable; but the entire rain forest is on the verge of an irreversible environmental shift which will turn the whole region from jungle to grassland. Permanently.

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2 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Serious question---

 

I'm putting that out there because I already know it doesn't sound like it.

 

I've been hearing, on-and-off, for my entire life "save the rainforest" and "give to these various charities that are defending the rainforest."

 

My question is this:

 

Are there any organizations that are collecting money to _buy_  it?  I mean really.  It seems like over the decades enough money has been raised for various factions of saving the rainforest to have made serious in-roads here.   Start buying it up a few acres at a time and put great big GTFO signs on it.

 

No-- I'm not looking to start a shouting match; I'm not looking a list of ten thousand reasons of why it can't be done.  Buying up land seems to be working out okay for anyone else who wants to control it, so I've just been kind of wondering.  Google wasn't much help on this, or I'd have left you folks alone.

 

 

Duke

 

 

I've heard of several private charities which supposedly do this with the money they raise (plus some monies coming from various governments around the world which is set aside specifically for this purpose).

 

< boilerplate how-charities-work rant >

 

It's not really possible to figure out how effective such charities are without doing a hell of a lot of digging. Some charities exist to raise money for itself, fly its executives around to take advantage of PR opportunities, and to pay lavish salaries to its employees with little to no money actually going toward the cause the charity is supposedly raising money toward. Other charities spend a sizable fraction of the money they raise on the publicly-stated goal of the charity and try to minimize overhead and expenses as much as they can while still remaining effective. You really can't tell anything about a charity by looking only at their publicly-stated goal while ignoring how effective they are at putting the money they raise toward achieving that goal.

 

A lot of charities seem to make a hobby of obscuring their finances and avoiding transparency whenever possible, some probably to cover-up misuse of funds (from an ethical and/or legal viewpoint) and many others probably to avoid criticism from well-meaning amateurs who don't understand what they're looking at when they see it but who could bring a lot of unwarranted criticism toward the charity by publicizing their "findings".

 

< /boilerplate how-charities-work rant >

 

I've had to research a lot of charities for my blogging over the years but I've never investigated any of the ones ostensibly dedicated to purchasing the rainforest. But one that dedicates at least part of its money to purchasing rainforest is https://www.rainforesttrust.org/

 

Some charities focus on replanting deforested areas rather than purchasing untouched old growth rainforest. I'd imagine after a few years of slash-and-burn agriculture that the ground itself is fairly worthless. Dirt in most rainforest areas is notoriously some of the poorest land for supporting plantlife on the planet, barring outright arid desert areas, as counter-intuitive as that might sound. I don't know how they'd realistically expect to duplicate even a sizable fraction of the biodiversity of the original rainforest, but at least the new forest would be a carbon sink, provide oxygen, and help keep nearby old growth rainforest areas from reaching the theoretical tipping point of "this is no longer a forested area". One such charity is https://www.amazonconservation.org/

 

There's a lot of rainforest charities which don't directly affect the forests but instead do things like raise public awareness about rainforest issues, lobby politicians around the world, or teach natives who formerly lived in a rainforest how to deal with their newly deforested surroundings.

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A lot of rainforest/fire questions answered here with best information available

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-49450925

 

Measuring by number of fire vs total acreage burned is still up in the air because they can't accurately measure how much area has been burned. They usually get acreage data from satellite photos which aren't available until the smoke clears. Judging from CO2 readings though, it looks like this will be a record year.

 

The parts which are being burned would take 20-40 years to regenerate if it were left alone and allowed to regenerate.

 

The Amazon provides less than 10% of the world's oxygen, rather than the 20% which is widely quoted.

 

How long would the rainforest survive at current rates of it being obliterated? 20-30 years before it would reach the tipping point in the parts of the rainforest that are most endangered (the eastern and southern portions)...and that's if the rate of destruction increased back up to what it had been pre-2005 rather than at the current, lower levels of destruction. (At the pre-2005 rate of destruction, the less endangered western and northern parts of the rainforest are 50-60 years away from the tipping point.)

 

So if the current Brazillian government completely succeeds in rolling things back to the bad old days era, that's the kind of rainforest countdown we're looking at, according to the BBC.

 

 

 

 

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All too often ... something that weird often turns out the proposal is tailored for a specific facility they want, but rules require they post a general announcement of opportunity.

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7 minutes ago, Cancer said:

All too often ... something that weird often turns out the proposal is tailored for a specific facility they want, but rules require they post a general announcement of opportunity.

 

I bet they pre-selected the local hellmouth

 

"From beneath you, it devours"

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