Not enough rDEF?

[NuSoardGraphite]

I might also mention that the game gives itself over to bean counters. It's not a serious mystery as to why. I learned to divide fractions in my head playing this game and before Hero Builder, I couldn't have made a character without a calculator. The people who I know who play Champions most often refer to it as Math Club, the Role Playing Game. That doesn't make it a bad game system, but I don't think its valid to be surprised by people being overwhelmed by the amount of math that has to go into any play session.

 

I have a 1d6 HKA with AP and Indirect (+1/4) at 0 End. Quick. How much strength do I need over the weapon's minimum of 11 before it's a 1 1/2d6 HKA?! That's not an art, that's an impediment to the game getting new players.

12pts of STR per +1 DC. requiring STR 22 to reach 1d6+1k. That took me about 15 seconds. but that's also why i dont pro-rate STR for advantages. A lot of players wouldnt want to deal with it, and i dont blame them.

[Steve]

Mass for armor also depends on its quality. Fine quality like Dwarven-made could be 1/2 mass, even if non-magical. When you get to magic types of armor, I tend to make it at 1/2 mass by default. Some armor even goes to No mass, but that would be like Frodo's mithral shirt.

[Aversill]

12pts of STR per +1 DC. requiring STR 22 to reach 1d6+1k. That took me about 15 seconds. but that's also why i dont pro-rate STR for advantages. A lot of players wouldnt want to deal with it, and i dont blame them.

I think it's 6 for +1 DC (Indirect and 0 End don't count).  5 x 1.25, but it might be 13 to go up by 2.  Do you round up or down at .5?  In any case, my wife won't do that math.  We just go 5 for 1 DC unless the advantages are egregious.

[Steve]

Unless the Advantages go over +1/2, I don't normally worry about it to keep things flowing faster. At +3/4 to +1 1/2, I just use 10 points per DC increase.

 

It's not a method as granular as the books say to do, but its easier for newer players to manage in the heat of battle.

[mhd]

That doesn't make it a bad game system, but I don't think its valid to be surprised by people being overwhelmed by the amount of math that has to go into any play session.

I've heard the same in RoleMaster, where people were apparently unable to cope with subtracting and adding double digit numbers. Apparently a reason why people like dice pools (WW style, not D6) or dice escalation systems. I weep for our future, if that is seen as AP Math.

 

Not a big fan of AP caps in a fantasy game, by the way. Not that the current armor construction rules are that much better... If I'd do it that way, I'd go the full monty and ditch equipment altogether.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I think it's 6 for +1 DC (Indirect and 0 End don't count).  5 x 1.25, but it might be 13 to go up by 2.  Do you round up or down at .5?  In any case, my wife won't do that math.  We just go 5 for 1 DC unless the advantages are egregious.

 I counted Indirect and 0 End,   And I counted AP as +1/2 (haven't moved up to 6th edition yet.  I was counting the old 5th edition rate.)

[Christougher]

Not that the current armor construction rules are that much better... If I'd do it that way, I'd go the full monty and ditch equipment altogether.

 

Okay, so what exactly would you do for equipment then?

 

Chris.

[Aversill]

Equipment Pool, man.  Come to the dark side!

[mhd]

Okay, so what exactly would you do for equipment then?

Standard superheroic "equipment is power" rules. Ignored for minor stuff, so there's no need to buy Clinging for ropes and pitons, and for short-term equipment (yes, you can use that glaive you just found, at least until the end of this session).

 

Not that I really want to do that. I'm all for verisimilitude on your average fantasy campaign's power level, not mostly artificial balancing.

 

But if I play something that is closer to "Rhialto" magicians or high-level D&D, I'll probably reach for the superheroic parts of the rules. Not my favorite style, but if I ever convert my 14+ lvl D&D 3E Drow campaign, well...

[Ninja-Bear]

Mhd how does using superheroic rules for armor going to help? Not getting what your're saying or implying.

[mhd]

Superheroes have no equipment. If you're wearing plate armor in a superheroic fantasy campaign, it's a defense power, the same goes for swords, horses etc.. If you're really keen on balance and AP limits, then that's probably the better approach. That also means that one person's plate isn't another ones, that protection isn't tied to verisimilitude etc.

I don't find this particularly exciting, but different strokes...

 

Or are we talking about my dislike for the HERO armor construction rules that I mentioned in the same post? Well, it's a bit simplistic, with weight tied explicitly to PD, never mind the construction method. Don't see a big benefit from that. Never mind that the values themselves could probably use a bit of rejiggering (the usual linear increase). Doesn't really help a "enough rDEF" campaign, as it probably wouldn't really increase the defenses across the board, quite the contrary. Maybe one or two points for post-medieval torso & helmet plate.