7th Edition thoughts

[rravenwood]

One thing about chraxteristics for a 7 th.

Only values that have an effect ruleswise would be nice. Currently we increase str,... By single points each but for usage they are divided through 5 always

 

Admittedly a small detail, but up until 3rd edition, at least, the formula for calculating lifting capability was presented in the rules (25kg x 2^(STR/5)), so one could determine just how much more weight - for example - a STR 11 character could lift (about +15 kg).  Unless the STR chart in 6th has radically changed, I'd imagine there's no reason the old formula still couldn't be used.

[Beast]

or divide the next lower 5 or 0 lift by 5 and that is the breakdown for the next 4 numbers for that group

example

23 Str how much can it lift

20 Str can lift 400kg

So 400/5= 80

80x3=240

240+400= 640kg

Admittedly a small detail, but up until 3rd edition, at least, the formula for calculating lifting capability was presented in the rules (25kg x 2^(STR/5)), so one could determine just how much more weight - for example - a STR 11 character could lift (about +15 kg).  Unless the STR chart in 6th has radically changed, I'd imagine there's no reason the old formula still couldn't be used.

[Tasha]

or divide the next lower 5 or 0 lift by 5 and that is the breakdown for the next 4 numbers for that group

example

23 Str how much can it lift

20 Str can lift 400kg

So 400/5= 80

80x3=240

240+400= 640kg

That works for strength, but what's the real difference between an INT of 18,19,20,21, and 22?   Dex has slight differences because of Dex order on the SPD chart.

[BhelliomRahl]

Simplicity in systems, uniformity in systems. No loss to the toolbox at any level. No change to the actual granularity of the system

I agree with this.

 

I am a Hero fan but if its to have a future it need to change.  It needs to be designed so that a new player can pick up the books and easily create a character to play.

 

I would want Hero to stay as a generic system at its core but with settings.  I would like to see a Core Book which contains all the rules, but have a number of Genre Setting Books.  Each Setting book would have Basic Rules specific to it but which references to the core.  This would mean that players could get the setting book and play right off, however when they want to expand the their ideas they could look to the Core Book.

 

I would like to see a redoing of the Complication system.  At present its for the GM to use and introduce but what would be nice is a system which encourages Players to player their complication.  As mentioned linking awarding of HAP to them would be interesting.  Personally I have introduced elements of the Fate system in to Hero games particularly Aspects.

[Greywind]

4th-6th is designed where a new player can pick up the book and easily create a character so long as 1) they read the books and 2) start by making simple (not overly complex/powerful) characters.

 

As for complications, if the player doesn't want to play them then they shouldn't be on the character sheet to begin with.

[bluesguy]

Complications:  My players love complications.  They love the psychological ones.  Hunted & DNPCs they are not as fond of because their GM loves them :-)....  IMO:  Complications help define the role playing part of the game.  Without them characters don't have a clear definition.  Plus playing complications that are different than your dominate personal complications can help a person grow

[Asperion]

Something that has always been a problem for my char builds since BBB has been the different location of powers/advantages/limits.  While I would prefer to convert from fraction to dec (i already do        ), i hate finding the base power on page x then hunting the main advantages section followed by the power cat a then cat b and c til all power types are done only to repeat the process for limits - and i am one who knows the system!  Imagine how daunting that would be for a newbe.  Try making a list shows all powers, another for advantages regardless of of it should be on this type or not, and another for limits.

[IndianaJoe3]

Something that has always been a problem for my char builds since BBB has been the different location of powers/advantages/limits.  While I would prefer to convert from fraction to dec (i already do        ), i hate finding the base power on page x then hunting the main advantages section followed by the power cat a then cat b and c til all power types are done only to repeat the process for limits - and i am one who knows the system!  Imagine how daunting that would be for a newbe.  Try making a list shows all powers, another for advantages regardless of of it should be on this type or not, and another for limits.

 

I believe that Champions Complete has gone to that format.

[Tasha]

I believe that Champions Complete has gone to that format.

Champs complete puts all advantages and limitations together on the same list. Once you get used to the idea it makes good sense. Because many limitations switch over into becoming Advantages so there was never a good sense of what was in one category or the other. Hero Designer keeps to the old way of organizing things.

[Tom2405]

That works for strength, but what's the real difference between an INT of 18,19,20,21, and 22?   Dex has slight differences because of Dex order on the SPD chart.

That is what I had meant. aside from strength (and possibly dex but even there in most cases aside from order of things) I dont see any difference between the attributes having 0,1,2  or 3,4,5 after the 10 or 100 number. 

(just saw hero designer rounds so 10,11,12 counts as 2  and 13,14,15 as 3 for purposes of skills (talking about characteristic/5 here). ). 

[Tasha]

Hero Designer Rounds by the "Hero Rounding rules" which state any .5 is rounded whatever way is best for the player. (The only time this is not true is  in 5e and 5er and buying Com where you round your Com Score down)

[Tasha]

That is what I had meant. aside from strength (and possibly dex but even there in most cases aside from order of things) I dont see any difference between the attributes having 0,1,2  or 3,4,5 after the 10 or 100 number. 

(just saw hero designer rounds so 10,11,12 counts as 2  and 13,14,15 as 3 for purposes of skills (talking about characteristic/5 here). ). 

 

I think in Hero 7 we should stop fooling ourselves and make that Charactersitic/5 value how Primarys are bought. It does need thought for CON scores, but that COULD be left as the current value since there's no real in game reason for people to make a Con Roll. It does figure into whether one is stunned or not.

[Greywind]

You don't use CON rolls for fighting off poisons and diseases?

[Tom2405]

PRE is also a thing with pre+10,...x that needs to be kept in mind there though 

[Tasha]

PRE is also a thing with pre+10,...x that needs to be kept in mind there though 

Just move that and Ego attacks to counting Body on the dice and then it becomes Pre, Pre +2, Pre +4, Pre +6 (Ego, Ego +2, Ego +4, Ego +6)

[Tom2405]

Interesting idea there. also one point there as it wasnt mentioned so far : if the characteristisc are costing 5 points each the higher cost of characteristics (to have some effect) would be better seen by the casual player who doesnt delve too much into rules.....as I've seen time and again ppl using 18 int or 13 ego. it is nice to see nonclones of each other but ruleswise no difference sadly 

[Stacie.Winters]

1. Will there ever be a 7th edition of Hero System?

2. If there is, should the system move towards simplification and less complexity, or towards extending the modularity introduced in 6th?

3. Are there any glaring "legacy" mechanics from previous editions crying out for revamping and revision?

4. Should the product be less "generic" and more oriented towards specific settings?

5. Should there be more characteristics? Fewer? About the same number? What about rules for optional stats?

6. Should complications be revamped, or even removed/made optional? Should power limitations and complications be merged, at least in some instances?

7. Should costing be simplified? Should costing for advantages and limitations be made more granular(i.e., +/- 0.1)?

 

 

That's enough for now.

 

I haven't been on these boards in a long time but I am going to be buying all the 6e books soon because I really just like this game system but I can totally see it being updated to better fit the paradigms of how modern games are being designed while also keeping the game HERO System. It's possible and IMO it should be done, and for it to happen there would have to be a total paradigm shift in both the company that would do a 7th edition and the fans of the game that have loved the game so much which would mean that a lot of you would have to be willing to accept the game being somewhat different than it is today.

 

1. Yes, there should be a Hero System 7th Edition.

2. Simplify it, learn from the mistakes of the past (I guess that would be Fuzion although I've never seen that take on it), and look into the broader scope of the role playing industry to see what a lot of people like.

 

There is a reason why Mutants and Masterminds is kicking Hero System's butt with role players right now... and it's possible to remake Hero System to better fit what those people like.

 

3. Oh God yes. There are too many Characteristics right now that basically serve duplicate roles and there are just not enough differences between them. Keep Strength and Dexterity, combine Intelligence and Ego, keep Constitution and Presence. Make OCV and DCV just CV, and MOCV and MDCV just MCV. Combine PD and ED to just Defense. Make Spd's scale smaller so instead of it being 1 to 12 make it 1 to 6. Combine Body and Stun. Keep Recovery.

 

This game can easily be the same with just Str, Dex, Con, Int, Pre with CV and MCV and then Def, Spd, End, Body, and Rec. Sure that's still 12 but it's a start.

 

You could take it further by combining Str and Con and renaming it Physique, Intelligence and Presence and renaming it Psyche and then you'd have Physique, Dexterity and Psyche (although Psyche isn't a good name). You could combine CV and MCV to just Combat Value although with this I'd probably like to have it Offense and Defense Combat Values. Defense would be better renamed Armor or Damage Reduction because that's basically what it is and having it named Defense would be confusing. Keep Endurance, Body and Recovery as is.

 

Sure that's a lot of 'you could do this' and that's okay. This game could be simplified in the Characteristics department and still be Hero System just fine. Plus new players wouldn't be so intimidated by the 17 there is right now. If it was simplified down to 8 to 10 that would look way better for new players.

 

The Skills could definitely use a overhaul. There are many skills that seem to relate to each other in a lot of ways. Some skills we just do not need like Cramming and Ventriloquism and Contortionist and Fast Draw (these skills could make for better Talents). Others can be combined like Acrobatics and Break Fall then Shadowing and Tracking and all those (science)ology skills can be put into a single skill called Science. It would be smart for this skills list to be cut down my at least a third and we could still make any character we wanted and many of those skills would make better Talents or Perks. I mean, do we really need a Bugging skill when we also have a Security Systems skill... both can be put into a single skill called Security. Get rid of the Skills Levels Skill, I mean, how redundant if you really think about it and it makes no sense and it would make it easier for new players to cut this list down.

 

Also... change how the link between Skills and Characteristics work out so we don't always see 18 Int and 13 Ego characters. Get rid of those internal benchmarks for skills somehow.

 

The Powers could probably do with some modification but I'd have to go through the Powers with a lot more scrutiny to figure out what those would be but I am sure a few could be combined... and it's possible to totally change how Powers are determined and yet still keep this game Hero System. Sure it wouldn't be the same that's been around for over thirty years, but this game isn't really getting any new players into it either.

 

It's time Hero System came to the modern age. 6th Edition failed to do this.

 

4. There should be specific games for the genre's and with a 7th Edition game I'd suggest they go with all new campaign worlds, except for Champions. If they did a new Fantasy setting and a new Star Hero setting that'd be really cool because the ones they have right now are, to me, really boring settings and worlds. Turakian Age (sorry if I misspell it) is not a good setting and compared to things like the Forgotten Realms and Eberron just to name two really known worlds it just pales in comparison.

 

If not this, than a single Core book that has all the rules followed by a Game Master book that is focused on running Hero System and in this book they can have separate chapters on different genre's and how to adapt and mold the Hero System rules to fit different genre's. This is also where many optional rules could be located.

 

5. I guess my answer in 3 answered this one.

 

6. Yes Complications should be kept, but the system for how they are picked could be overhauled. Instead of them giving characters points for making characters a more modern game design idea is that the Complications that character's have are there to Complicate characters and if that comes up during the adventure than the character gets bonus experience points.

 

Switching to this kind of idea would also simplify the overall math of the game, and make it easier for GMs to use them. Anything that can simplify the math of this game should be looked at.

 

7. Yes, this can also be simplified. Changing the fractions to decimals alone would look better just for appearance sake. I don't know if it would be possible to change the modifiers in a way that would keep the overall mathematical process similar to how it is now. In many ways because of how this game uses Fractions (decimal) and I think that in many ways the math of this game makes a ton of sense where other games just don't.

 

Changing the overall way of how powers and characters are made with different costs would be the biggest change and would need the most playtesting.

 

All in all, the one thing I'd be tempted to try and find a replacement for is the Speed Chart but that is the one thing that distinctly makes Hero System definitely Hero so that is the one thing that I'd keep. And this is probably one of the biggest hurdles for new players because people are so used to rolling Initiative in other games and Hero system doesn't do that.

 

I am sure many of you would look at some of my change suggestions and tell me that I'd be changing it way too much... but than if I was in charge I'd want to remake the game to appeal to gamers today and not games of twenty years ago. I mean no disrespect to anybody and I hope nobody took anything I said as an offense because I still like this game and have for a long time.

[Lucius]

 

 

 

Ms. Winters said: "

1. Yes, there should be a Hero System 7th Edition.

2. Simplify it, learn from the mistakes of the past (I guess that would be Fuzion although I've never seen that take on it), and look into the broader scope of the role playing industry to see what a lot of people like.

 

There is a reason why Mutants and Masterminds is kicking Hero System's butt with role players right now... "

 

What is the reason?

 

Ms. Winters said: "

and it's possible to remake Hero System to better fit what those people like."

 

I'm sure that's so, but I will point out that Hero can never be as good at being Mutants and Masterminds as Mutants and Masterminds is, nor as good at being D&D as D&D is (although I suppose Pathfinder may have actually succeeded in being D&D better than D&D is....)

 

Ms. Winters said: "

3. Oh God yes. There are too many Characteristics right now that basically serve duplicate roles and there are just not enough differences between them. Keep Strength and Dexterity, combine Intelligence and Ego, keep Constitution and Presence. Make OCV and DCV just CV, and MOCV and MDCV just MCV. Combine PD and ED to just Defense. "

 

During the open discussion period as Mr. Long was preparing to write 6th edition, I was among those proposing to abolish the PD and ED distinction, exactly as you are suggesting.

 

Ms. Winters said: "

Make Spd's scale smaller so instead of it being 1 to 12 make it 1 to 6."

 

Not to be confrontational, but why? And does this mean you propose to make the Turn only 6 Segments? That may be an improvement but I am interested in your reasoning.

 

Ms. Winters said: "

Combine Body and Stun."

 

On the contrary, the distinction between "Hits to Kill" and "Hits to Knockout" is one of the great things about the Hero System and something that makes it superior to other systems.

 

Ms. Winters said: "

Keep Recovery.

 

This game can easily be the same with just Str, Dex, Con, Int, Pre with CV and MCV and then Def, Spd, End, Body, and Rec. Sure that's still 12 but it's a start.

 

You could take it further by combining Str and Con and renaming it Physique,"

 

You could also abolish all Characteristics entirely. I don't think you should. Nor should you combine STR and CON. Maybe you should combine BOD and CON. The Stunning rule (lost phase if you take damage over CON) could be eliminated or else BOD could be used for that value, and BOD could be used for those circumstances when one might call for a CON roll such as to resist poison.

 

Ms. Winters said: " Intelligence and Presence and renaming it Psyche "

 

I can't imagine why you would possibly want to do that. I can imagine the game without INT, although saying that leaves me open to all kinds of jokes ("Yes, now we can counter those accusations Hero is to complex by pointing out it's a no-brainer!") But I don't see where INT and PRE have anything in common to suggest combining them. I mean, I could see combining INT and DEX before combining INT and PRE!

 

Ms. Winters said: "

and then you'd have Physique, Dexterity and Psyche (although Psyche isn't a good name). You could combine CV and MCV to just Combat Value although with this I'd probably like to have it Offense and Defense Combat Values. "

 

I've actually thought about that myself, and see a way to make it work, although I can sympathize with all the people who are going to look at this and respond "that can't POSSIBLY work."

 

Ms. Winters said: "

Defense would be better renamed Armor or Damage Reduction because that's basically what it is "

 

No, I think those would be more confusing.

 

Ms. Winters said: "

and having it named Defense would be confusing. Keep Endurance, Body and Recovery as is.

 

Sure that's a lot of 'you could do this' and that's okay. This game could be simplified in the Characteristics department and still be Hero System just fine. Plus new players wouldn't be so intimidated by the 17 there is right now. If it was simplified down to 8 to 10 that would look way better for new players.

 

The Skills could definitely use a overhaul. There are many skills that seem to relate to each other in a lot of ways. Some skills we just do not need like Cramming and Ventriloquism and Contortionist and Fast Draw (these skills could make for better Talents)."

 

Well, first of all, yes we need them. Second of all, moving them to Talents is just changing where they are in the rules. And third, while moving them to Talents may make some sense for Cramming, which does not function like other Skills, it makes no sense for the others you mention which DO function like other Skills.

 

Ms. Winters said: "

Others can be combined like Acrobatics and Break Fall "

 

I am totally in agreement here; I have pointed out that the existence of these two as separate Skills is an example of Hero being more complex than it really needs to be.

 

Ms. Winters said: "

then Shadowing and Tracking "

 

Shadowing and Tracking are two very different things. Tracking is following a trail. Shadowing is following someone without being noticed. Shadowing could be combined with Stealth and probably should be.

 

Ms. Winters said: "

and all those (science)ology skills can be put into a single skill called Science. "

 

That might work for some games, and other games would have no sciences at all, but in many games it would be nonsense for the same Skill to stand for biology and nuclear physics and sociology and algebra and so forth and so on. On the other hand, I could see combining Science Skills and Knowledge Skills, abolishing the different "kinds" of Knowledge, and perhaps even lumping them in with Professional Skills under some such title as "Background Skills" (probably not a good name.) I have to admit that thinking of doing that makes me wince and I am not advocating it by any means, but I'll agree it could be done and what you're left with is still recognizably Hero. In fact, I could be wrong but I THINK that's exactly how it was done in Danger International.

 

Ms. Winters said: "

It would be smart for this skills list to be cut down my at least a third nd we could still make any character we wanted and many of those skills would make better Talents or Perks. I mean, do we really need a Bugging skill when we also have a Security Systems skill... both can be put into a single skill called Security. Get rid of the Skills Levels Skill, I mean, how redundant"

 

I can't imagine why you call Skill Levels redundant. They let me, for example, take a fantasy thief type character, buy Stealth and Climbing and Sleight of Hand (Pickpocket) and Lockpick and then get a "+2 with all thief Skills" and get a bonus on any of them (although only 1 or 2 at a time, so that if I'm hanging on a wall and trying to quietly unlock a window I need to decide which I prioritize - not falling, getting the window open, or not being heard.) You think I should have to buy every single Skill up individually to whatever maximum roll I want to have with it?

 

Ms. Winters said: "

if you really think about it and it makes no sense "

 

I have really thought about Skill Levels and they do make sense. A talented person trying to do 2, 3, or even more things at once should, in my opinion, have to worry about where their focus is.

 

Ms. Winters said: "

and it would make it easier for new players to cut this list down.

 

Also... change how the link between Skills and Characteristics work out so we don't always see 18 Int and 13 Ego characters. Get rid of those internal benchmarks for skills somehow."

 

Actually, Skill Levels are a potential key to cutting the list of Characteristics down.

 

For example, we can abolish INT and under Skill Levels mention that a possible variety of Skill Level is "Observational Skills" and that would include Perception and Tracking and Concealment (when looking for something) or "Academic Skills" and that would include Knowledges (including Sciences) etc. Perhaps there can be an Adder that allows a Skill Level to be used for multiple Skills at once, so it would work the same way the Characteristic bonuses to Skills do now.

 

If it weren't for the fact DEX and PRE have other uses in game, I'd be proposing the same thing for them. Although I suppose you could get rid of DEX and use Lightning Reflexes....

 

 

 

Finally, one thing I LOVE about Hero is it's generic and universal nature - "One Ruleset to Rule Them All." But I also fully understand the appeal of a "pick up and play" option such as provided by Champions Complete and the upcoming Fantasy Hero Complete.

 

Well, at least by the "everything's possible" nature of comic books, I can always count on the Champions equivalent being damn close to generic and universal. It's just that I always have and always will resent the attitude (not that I have encountered it for a long time, but I used to) that Hero System is just for superheroes. That's not what I use it for, and it's not what I want to use it for. I have to admit D&D HAS improved over the years, but Hero System is STILL better for fantasy.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is shocked to learn that there is a pointless and arbitrary limit to how many blocks of quoted text are allowed, and we hope this change in format will work.

[Hyper-Man]

I don't think that the core rules of HERO are really the issue.  It has always had the best toolkitting rules on the market.  What it has NOT had is the best finished game settings with actual examples of what optional rules were turned on and off and WHY.  When folks are comparing M&M to Champions I think that's what's happening.  HERO has always left that final 10-20% of fiddly choices to the GM.  This is especially frustrating with Fantasy Hero as that final piece (a fully fleshed out magic system) is really THE biggest hurdle to letting the game actually have a chance of competing with other systems.  Right now the perception is that HERO's support is something like "here's the toolkit and here are some example spells" but there isn't an actual list of spells for a specific world (this might not actually be the case but that's the perception).  Instead of putting the toolkit front and center (which is not as big a deal these days with far more games and gamers doing system 'hacks' than in years past) HERO needs to produce a POLISHED setting with EVERY game time decision already made as a default (Strike Force did this). Then at the very end explain how to tweak stuff (like Hit Location, END use, Bleeding Rules, etc..).  HERO is currently has numerous examples of how to make a COMPLETE CHARACTER for whatever setting but has very few if any good examples of a COMPLETE GAME.  Improve the latter and the accessibility of the system to new players will increase.

 

my 2 sheckles

HM

[mallet]

100% agree with Hyper-Man. 

 

The 6th Ed rules are great as a tool kit. No need to change them. What is needed are complete games/settings built using the tool kit. 

 

In video game terminology the 6th ed rules are a gaming engine, like The Creation Engine or Unreal, but 90% of people don't want to buy the engine and program their own games, they want to buy Skyrim or Halo and just play. Sure, having access to the "code" is great if you want to hack the system and build your own mods, but you need to provide the actual game first. 

[Tasha]

Assume that I am talking about Primary stat/5 as the new way to buy stats (AKA 2 base, and +1/ 5pts)

I would merge some of the stats. With Figured Characteristics gone. IMHO there's really no reason to have certain Stats. ie Dex should be folded into OCV and DCV. (the manual dexterity aka hand skills, are OCV, and the Body based ones like Stealth go with DCV). Add the two together to get initiative number (not rolling isn't going to boggle most D20 folk).

OMCV and DMCV should just be folded into the EGO stat. (In games with lots of mental combat splitting Ego back into OMCV and DMCV should be an optional rule)

INT is fine

PRE serves a good role that players seem to enjoy and so many other systems try to emulate and fail.

Str is also fine

Con would need some thought. I like the mechanic of hitting someone so hard they see stars (ie lose a phase). It allows low OCV folk a chance vs High DCV people if the low OCV person rolls VERY well.

PD and ED should become DEF for all genres ex superheroes.

Rec is needed

 

SPD is just fine. Going to a 12 second 6 Segment (2secs per segment) could be a good thing for Non supers games. It could also prove to be confusing to have both systems around

End is actually pretty useless in anything but a Superheroic game or possibly a high fantasy game (though for High fantasy one could have a Mana Pool system). For Pushing in Heroic games I would have the push burn Stun (ie making the Ego roll is 5pps of push and 1d6 stun burned, +1d6stun burn for every 2 pp pushed beyond the first 5)

 

Stun is what makes Hero Special so nothing different for STUN

Body. IMHO it would depend on how we change Killing attacks. If we leave them the same leave body as it is. If we change the system to work differently then we might need to have a different stat for keeping track of how much damage a person can take before they die. That might need be become a "Hits" system similar to Fuzion, or something different.

I have thought about having Normal and Killing attacks both cost 5pts / 1d6.
Normal attacks count Stun on the dice and half the Stun is also counted as "Hits of damage" both are applied to Def separately. (Similar to how Stun and Body damage is dealt with now).
Killing Attacks would count Hits on the dice rolled and half those hits would be also applied as Stun Damage.
AVLD vs Resistant Defense could be bought for either damage type.
The real fun can come when you mix the two damage types. ie 8d6 Killing attack + 4d6 Normal as a hammer attack. The blunt weapon doing more stun damage than a straight up blade. It allows you to do fun things to change the way weapons work
(Please be gentle with this system, I am still trying to think over what the benefits and hinderances to the system would be. I realize that dividing in half isn't necessarally the best choice, but reading "Normal dice Body damage" doesn't feel right for KA's)

[IndianaJoe3]

If I write 7e, "Images, only to create light" will go away. Change Environment will be used to affect light levels.

[Tasha]

If I write 7e, "Images, only to create light" will go away. Change Environment will be used to affect light levels.

 

How about this

4 Flashlight:  +4 PER with Sight Group, Area Of Effect (4m Cone Explosion; +1/4) (10 Active Points); OAF (-1), Usable By Other (-1/4), Grantor can take back power at any time, Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Recipient must remain close to Grantor, 8 Continuing Fuel Charges lasting 1 Hour each (-0)

 

so the light is strongest with a meter of the light and is -1 per meter after that. +4 because that's the modifier for night per.

[Lucius]

I may disagree with Hyper Man's contention that ruleset as such is fine as it is and doesn't need to be improved, but I suspect he may be entirely correct that the REAL problem is the lack of a finished complete detailed "plug and play" setting.

 

I've said many times that the real difference between Hero and anything else in the market - and that includes GURPS - is that Hero IS NOT a game. It's a build-your-own-game-kit.

 

The problem is, there's only so much of a market for such a kit. If that's what you want, Hero is really the only choice. I'd like to see Hero stay a toolkit, not just because it's so good at it but because it has literally no competition in that field, but I hope that's not incompatible with ALSO creating and marketing actual games. In fact, Hero has done that - PS 238 (or whatever the number was) and Lucky Liberia (or whatever that name was) and Monster Hunter International and of course way way back in "first edition" when Fantasy Hero and Justice inc and Danger International were all stand-alones.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Do you want a palindromedary tagline or I could just give you a palindromedary and you make your own

[IndianaJoe3]

How about this

4 Flashlight:  +4 PER with Sight Group, Area Of Effect (4m Cone Explosion; +1/4) (10 Active Points); OAF (-1), Usable By Other (-1/4), Grantor can take back power at any time, Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Recipient must remain close to Grantor, 8 Continuing Fuel Charges lasting 1 Hour each (-0)

 

That doesn't quite work, as it gives bonuses instead of counteracting penalties. Enhanced Senses really don't have an equivalent of Penalty Skill Levels. Maybe it needs one?

 

When 6e was under development, I suggested an entire system of, "light levels." Normal range was 4-7, under that were penalties for dimness and over that were penalties for glare. I forget how much I was charging for the ability to shift one level, but it was 3-5 points.