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Oh and was 5th ed. when 30 value in a stat became the official cut off between super heroic and heroic?


It was first listed in the 5e Champions Sourcebook so it's technically not an official Hero System rule but rather a Champions/Champions Universe Genre rule.




I think you are still missing the point we are trying to make.  20/22 is NOT a maximum.  It is just the point at which costs double.  Captain America could have up to a 30 STR by the definition of his abilities*.


*Peak human.


Hopefully this portion of the 5e Champions book mentioned by Lord Liaden will help illustrate what we mean.




Characters like Captain America would be firmly in the Legendary category. 


Some real world examples might be Bruce Lee (DEX) or Andre the Giant* (STR & CON).


*Andre could drink an ENORMOUS amount of alcohol compared to most people.

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Yeah like in the STR thread in the Hero rules discussion area, people tend to use Strength because its the only quantifiable, benchmarked stat.  You can actually make an equivalent with real life: I can lift 100 kilos at my greatest effort, so I have 10 STR.  That's where I always would draw the line.  The maximum weight lifted by a human being on record is just over 457 kilos (deadlift, to the thigh) and that's just over 20 STR.  So 20 seems to be where you start getting superheroic, but I'd probably shove that up to 23, wearing a suit that keeps you from rupturing yourself.

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I know the STR chart use to give me fits as not being realisitic however it one of those things which I learn to let go. Fwiw I considered changing the the chart from metric to english but keep the the numbers the same. I.e. 10 STR would then be max at 100 lbs instead of 100 kilos and 200 STR would be 400 lbs instead of 400 kilos.

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Well I hope DJWebb wanders across this at some point.  Posted in July with no responses, and its such an easy thing to rebuild guys.


From the very first champions game I played in 1982 I understood normal humans were 10-20 without any charts, I think it was even mentioned in the rules.


Real sorry about not jumping back on - real life/work has kept me away from gaming for a while. I just caught up with this string this past holiday week and I thank everyone for their input - Especially in conversions and the re-tweaking of FW.

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Well, when I look in my binder full of old Champions characters, there isn't a single one that would have had any use for 100 extra points in skills. My characters operated in campaigns that resembled the comics, and you don't generally see four-color supers spending panel after panel "making skill rolls". *shrug*

I've never seen them making to-hit or damage rolls either.


Lucius Alexander


Making a palindromedary roll

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  • 1 month later...

My group always went with the NCM of 20, anything over 20 was superhuman. yes the points double after 20 but we understood that was the Superhuman element. anybody with the time, effort, and willpower can be an Olympic level athlete, but not everyone has access to Dr. Erskine's SSS. So while Bruce Wayne might have the drive and money to be a world class everything he isn't Steve Rogers when it comes to stats, the serum amplified everything.

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  • 6 years later...
On 10/29/2014 at 6:25 PM, Enforcer84 said:

maybe. But in my decades of experience, no one in my group wanted to play Hawkeye. Or at least a Hawkeye that found cops a threat. Not that we never played low-power games, we just preferred the Avengers to the Teen Titans. 


We had a series of broken concepts - didn't really get going until Champions II and III came out and we got some real potentially disruptive powers to play with - absorption to force field was a favorite for one "Martial Artist." or the mage who had a cosmic, 0 phase variable defense pool. 


IIRC our first game consisted of Enforcer (Me) a flight Brick with Adrenaline surges (ripped off Ripper's Strength buffs) so I went from 60 to 100 for 6 rounds a day. Had a lot of defenses and a jet belt like Wonder Man.


Xenonoblaster was the aforementioned robot with 100 STR and 700 pts. He would have been imbalanced but the GM and that Player were intellectual rivals at most things and so most of the competition was geared towards eliminating him.


Ratman was an anthropomorphic rat with an 80 STR.


Syphon had a multipower of drains and transfers. And looked like Captain Caveman.


Rising Son was the Martial Artist with the absorption field.


we stopped a bankrobbery...by Neutron's group...(Arc, Wyvern, Ankylosaur, Grond was added as were Thunder and Lightning)


Xenonoblaster tore the vault out of the building to keep it from them and then KO'd Wyvern and Lightning. Neutron detonated him. Ratman took out Thunder and Arc, Enforcer got jobbed by Grond, Rising Son managed to take out Ankylosaur and Syphon drained Grond into a managable brick but Neutron got away.


Aaaand I'm back in Ed's basement.

Can I join you?

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