Spirit Rules

[Javalleron]

I'm in the process of revamping my 5th ed. campaign, and am looking at dealing with spirits. Although ghosts and spirits designed as using Desolidification is workable, I was attracted to the spirit rules presented in the 4th Edition Hero Almanac 1 and Horror Hero. I tried reworking those rules a little bit by adding a new primary characteristic called SOUL (defined as a spiritual version of BODY), and a figured characteristic called STY (Sanity - defines as a spiritual version of STUN). I also ruled that MD would be a figured characteristic along with PD and ED (which meant that everyone got a little something).

 

Using the new characteristics, characters could develop powers that used, targeted, etc. SOUL instead of body. For example, a vampire's life-draining bite could be written as an HKA vs. SOUL (although part of it would still need to be vs. BODY). Given this, MD would need to be able to use things normally only available to PD and ED (like rPD and rED). So MD could have rMD and MD Damage Reduction. Although I'm still kind of partial to the idea, I would need to do some serious tweaking of templates for my HD and HCM software I'm planning on using for the campaign.

 

But I thought I'd throw this out to the forum to see if anyone else has other ideas on what to do. I had been picturing planes that prevent anyone in physical form from entering (spirit planes, dreamlands, etc.). So only spirits, ghosts, characters traveling in astral form, and the like would be able to enter. Any suggestions or ideas? What approaches have you been using?

[Lucius]

Computers and AIs are my go-to templates for spirits.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks I should post examples

[Javalleron]

I'll have to take another look at the AI rules. Of course, spirits would be fully sentient, as opposed to standard AI's that need to succeed in an EGO roll before initiating independent thought.

 

If you use spirits as a sort of truly independent/sentient version of an AI, how do you have them interact with the "real" world? AI's are computers, so they have a hardware component to "interface" with people. But spirits don't necessarily have that. I know that the 4th Ed. Horror Hero made use of containers (which could be defined however the GM wanted). For example, living bodies were containers; a haunted house might be a container; and the spirit plane was a container.

 

Do spirits have any movement flexibility if built along the AI-template guidelines? Or are they always (or often, or even sometimes) bound by a container?

[Christopher R Taylor]

The spirit rules were a good raw idea, and its too bad they never got developed in later editions into a part of the game.

[Lucius]

Crossposted from an old thread, with editorial comments added like this:

 

One thing I would do different now is use Striking Appearance. For some reason the standard AI Template in Hero Designer doesn't allow it to have PRE, and we need a way to give PRE to an AI.

Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

How about like this?

The Deity is built as an AI and assumed to be Extradimensional - on a Higher Plane even in the mechanical sense.

Note this, and the implications, it answers some of your questions

When He manifests, the avatar is STR 20, DEX 21, DEF 33 and twice hardened, but should only have a few BOD points.

Note that the only way to destroy Old Man River is to destroy the river itself but if deprived of worshippers and places of worship his power would be severely curtailed.

Opeekamanu
Old Man River
Val Char Cost Roll Notes

21 DEX 33 13- OCV: 7/DCV: 7
23 INT 13 14- PER Roll 14-
23 EGO 26 14- ECV: 8
6 SPD 29 Phases: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12


Total Characteristic Cost: 101

Movement:

Cost Powers END
60 Divine Powers: Elemental Control, 120-point powers

 

Yeah, I need to update to the new edition

34 1) Clairvoyance: Clairsentience (Sight And Perceive into a related Groups), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Mobile Perception Point (can move up to 48" per Phase), Transmit, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), MegaScale (1" = 10 km; +1/2), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (128 Active Points); Only in or near river (on, under, or over ground that drains into the river or its tributaries.) (-1)

 

A Spirit - unless "attached" to a Base, Vehicle, Automaton, or Character - will need Clairsentience to be aware of the game world, and Transdimensional Powers to effect it

34 2) Clairaudience: Clairsentience (Hearing And Perceive into a related Groups), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Mobile Perception Point (can move up to 48" per Phase), Transmit, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), MegaScale (1" = 10 km; +1/2), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (128 Active Points); Only in or near river (on, under, or over ground that drains into the river or its tributaries.) (-1)
38 3) Epiphany: Clairsentience (Sight, Perceive into a related, Hearing, Smell/Taste And Touch Groups), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Mobile Perception Point (can move up to 48" per Phase), Targeting, Transmit, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (145 Active Points); Only in or near river (on, under, or over ground that drains into the river or its tributaries.) (-1), Physical Manifestation (-1/4)

29 4) Manifestation: Telekinesis (20 STR), Affects Porous, Fine Manipulation, Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Transdimensional (Related Group of Dimensions; +3/4) (125 Active Points); Only in or near river (on, under, or over ground that drains into the river or its tributaries.) (-1), Physical Manifestation (-1/4) 12
27 5) 2X Hardened on up to 99 Active Points of DEF for Manifestation: Hardened (x2; +1/2) for up to 99 Active Points of Up to DEF 33, Usable By Other (+1/4), Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +1/2) (122 Active Points); Only in or near river (on, under, or over ground that drains into the river or its tributaries.) (-1), Limited Power Only to Harden the DEF of the Physical Manifestation of Powers (-1/4)

150 All the Power of the River: Endurance Reserve (1500 END, 0 REC)
1 Power of Prayer: 2 REC for END Reserve (2 Active Points); Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Conditional Power Prayer: Every petition or prayer of thanksgiving or praise directed at the River God activates this power. (-1/4)
5 Shrines: 30 REC for END Reserve (30 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, i.e. every day the shrines exist, this RECovery works.; -4), IAF Bulky (Focus (Every shrine contributes 1 REC); -1), Requires Multiple Foci or functions at reduced effectiveness (+1/4)
7 Temple: 50 REC for END Reserve (50 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, i.e. every day the shrines exist, this RECovery works.; -4), OIF Immobile (Focus ; -1 1/2), Crew-Served ([3-4] people; Temples function only if priests are in attendance; -1/2)
10 Double Focus Rule: total 4 Temples (10 Active Points)
4 Annual Rituals: 50 REC for END Reserve (50 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Hour, i.e. every day the shrines exist, this RECovery works.; -3), 1 Charge which Recovers every 1 Week (-2 1/2), Window Of Opportunity (once per Month, approximately; window remains open for 1 Day; Assorted holy days throughout the year; -2), OIF Immobile (Focus ; -1 1/2), Crew-Served ([9-16] people; -1), Requires A Background Skill Roll (One of the priests present must make a PS: Priest skill roll. (Normally they take all day to get the bonus); -1/4) [1]
20 Active Sonar (Hearing Group), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees)
5 Infrared Perception (Sight Group)
5 Nightvision
10 Discriminatory with Smell/Taste Group
57 River Awareness: Detect A Class Of Things: The River and everything in and on it 16- (Mystic Group), Discriminatory, Analyze, Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Perceive into a related group of dimensions, Range, Rapid: x10, Targeting, Telescopic: +3, Tracking
54 Hear Prayers: Detect A Class Of Things: Prayers, Oaths, any use of any Name by which the God is known 18- (Hearing Group), Discriminatory, Analyze, Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Perceive into a related group of dimensions, Targeting, Telescopic: +5, Tracking, Transmit (Can choose to acknowledge a prayer and answer directly)
15 Power Defense (15 points)
15 Mental Defense (20 points total)
280 River God Powers: Variable Power Pool, 200 base + 80 control cost, (300 Active Points); Limited Class Of Powers Available Slightly Limited (Only River God themed powers. ; -1/4)
Notes: Example: Resurrecting a character who drowned may be possible. Resurrecting a character dead of wounds or sickness may not be.
0 1) Punish by Drowning: Entangle 4d6, 5 DEF, Takes No Damage From Mundane Attacks Limited Group (Can be effected by magick; +1/4), Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +1/2), Indirect (Any origin, any direction; +3/4), Invisible to Hearing, and Sight Groups (+3/4) (146 Active Points); Limited Power Only to bind someone already in the water (-1) Real Cost: 73 15
0 2) Cause Fall: Telekinesis (30 STR), Indirect (Any origin, always to pull into the water; +1/2), Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +1/2), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2) (112 Active Points); Limited Power Only to cause someone on a boat, bridge, or shore to fall into the water (-1), Affects Whole Object (-1/4) Real Cost: 50 11
0 3) Bless Journey: (Total: 112 Active Cost, 112 Real Cost) Succor Boat Movement 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4), Variable Special Effects (Limited Group of SFX - Favorable winds, lack of sand bars, rowers just don't get tired.....; +1/4), Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2) (27 Active Points) (Real Cost: 27) plus Luck 4d6, Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1), Area Of Effect (6" Radius; +1), Selective (+1/4) (85 Active Points) (Real Cost: 85) Real Cost: 112 2
0 4) The River gives up its Dead: Healing BODY 6d6, Resurrection, Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +1/2) (140 Active Points); Limited Power Only drowning victims (-1), Limited Power Body must be in the River (-1/4) Real Cost: 62 14

Perks
32 Contact: Other Gods, spirits, and heroes (Contact has extremely useful Skills or resources, Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Very Good relationship with Contact), Spirit Contact (x2), Organization Contact (x3) (32 Active Points) 11-

Talents
3 I sense the flow of time: Absolute Time Sense
3 I know where I'm going: Bump Of Direction
24 All the tongues of man: Universal Translator 18-
15 or beast: Beast Speech
20 Animal Friendship
5 Eidetic Memory

Skills
10 Master of Destiny: "Computer Programming" 18-
10 Master of Destiny: "Computer Programming" 18-
Notes: Because this God is bought as an "AI" it technically needs a "Programming" skill to program itself. The skill is bought twice at a high roll so that if it were ever to fail, another roll could be taken immediately. There should be a less than one in forty thousand chance of a God doing anything but what They want to do. In essence, this is paying 20 points to be considered completely self-willed.

 

Please note this. If one does not want to just "house rule" an AI Spirit as truly self-willed, this is a workaround.

However, not all Sprits would necessarily have this. The average haunting ghost, for example, is probably under compulsions that limit it as much as a science fiction AI is hindered by its own programming.

3 Concealment 14-
3 Stealth 13-
3 Shadowing 14-
3 Deduction 14-
4 Navigation (Astral, Dimensional, Riverine) 14-
2 Animal Handler (Aquatic Animals) 9-
6 Survival (Temperate/Subtropical, Mountain, Underground) 14-
3 Conversation 18-
3 Trading 18-
3 Paramedics 14-
3 Analyze: Water 14-
3 Oratory 18-
6 TF: Large Rowed Boats, Large Wind-Powered Boats, Rafts, Small Rowed Boats, Small Wind-Powered Boats, Swimming Beasts
24 +3 with all non-combat Skills
10 +1 Overall
3 Scholar, Old Man River, He must know something we don't know
2 1) KS: Mythology (personally knows some of the principals...) (3 Active Points) 14-
4 2) KS: Flora and Fauna of the River (5 Active Points) 16-
3 3) KS: Flora and Fauna of the Riverbanks, valleys, deltas, and so forth (4 Active Points) 15-
6 4) KS: History of the River (7 Active Points) 18-
3 5) KS: River Lore (everything I didn't think of) (4 Active Points) 15-
3 Traveler, from the mountains on down to the sea
7 1) AK: The River (8 Active Points) 19-
5 2) AK: Headwaters, tributaries, deltas of the River (6 Active Points) 17-
3 3) AK: Towns along the River (4 Active Points) 15-
5 4) CuK: Societies native to the River's region (6 Active Points) 17-
3 Jack of All Riverine Trades
6 1) PS: Fishing (7 Active Points) 18-
4 2) PS: Boatbuilding (5 Active Points) 16-
3 3) PS: Bridgebuilding (4 Active Points) 15-
2 4) PS: Priest (3 Active Points) 18-

Total Powers & Skill Cost: 1122
Total Cost: 1223

1000+ Disadvantages
10 Distinctive Features: Numinous Presence (Easily Concealed; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
10 Social Limitation: Divine Obligations; has a duty to priests and worshippers (Occasionally, Major)
10 Psychological Limitation: Protective of the river, its animals, and its people (Uncommon, Strong)
193 Experience Points
(607 points unspent)

Total Disadvantage Points: 1223



Quote: I am Old Man River, and I have forgotten and washed out to the sea more than you will ever know.




Lucius Alexander

House of the Palindromedary
 

[Javalleron]

I hadn't thought of doing gods up this way, but it is an interesting idea. I don't mind doing house rules (just ask my players...).

[Mister E]

I think of souls/ghosts as psychic Ego based Computers & spirits/faeries as more interactive Automatons with Presence.

[Lucius]

I should probably do up some lesser spirits.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I should put a palindromedary tagline here

[Mzimwi]

I've done a lot of anthropological research on this topic. In Bantu Africa, and many other places, there are three basic types of spirits:  once human, nature spirits and alien/never human spirits. Spirit possession cults are a world-wide phenomenon in which the victim comes down with symptoms of shaking and fever. A diviner then tell her (it is usually women) the type of spirit she has and directs her to a cult/support group of people who have been possessed by the same spirit or type of spirit. This group then arranges a propitiation ceremony, wherein the spirit is contacted and honored and its demands are made known. Normally these demands consist of some kind of excess then joining the society, which has regular holiday when they get together, and, for lack of a better word, party. In East Africa, these spirits may be 'good' Muslim spirits that demand the person follow the rules of Islam, or other types that demand the opposite. The spirits are usually named after nationalities - there are English spirits that demand their hosts wear Western clothes, or Masaai spirits that demand a dance with lots of jumping around.

 

This is a list of types of Bantu spirits and notes about playing spirit PC's - SpiritStuff.pdf

 

Actual text with kiSwahili words:

 

Usvikirwa is the kiKoka (lingua franca of Ubantu) word for the phenomenon of spirit possession, a common malady in the real world. It typically begins with the afflicted person experiencing chills, shaking and fever, along with any number of non-specific symptoms. The subject then consults with an mganga (doctor or magic using specialist), who will rule out any ordinary source for the affliction. The next step is to consult an Mwaguzi/diviner, who will use her insight and mystical knowledge to identify the species of spirit afflicting the person. At that point, the person has to make a choice, to exorcise the spirit or appease it.

Exorcism, kuzungushu, is often a trial in itself, though nothing like Hollywood Catholic exorcisms. The time and place must be carefully chosen. The ritual itself will be conducted by a priest and/or an mganga wa ngoma (drum doctor). The ritual involves a mix of driving the spirit out of the patient and luring it into a surrogate, typically a goat or a guinea hen. In some cases, the spirit is too dangerous for a surrogate and must be trapped in a ward pot then disposed of. Otherwise the surrogate becomes a pet of the now cured patient, often a friendly one.

Appeasing spirits is a much more popular choice. A diviner or an Mtege hosting the same species of spirit will be called in to learn the spirit's demands, which are often rather simple, typically a new taboo, a libation and membership in a Kilinge, which will perform annual ceremonies. The rituals of making the bond with the spirit  are the primary function of Waganga wa Ngoma. The ceremony is a joyous event, both an end to suffering and the beginning of a new chapter in the person's life.

One can be afflicted by human, nature and/or alien spirits. Afflicting spirits can be divided into two camps:  possessor and non-possessors, referring to whether or not the spirit will actually speak through the person. Ancestral spirits often speak, mashave do not, elementals can go either way.

Mashave spirits are often named for nations, ethnic groups or animals, the most famous of which are the Kimaasai, so named because they cause their hosts to jump about in mad dances, Maasai style. In Ameru, there are Kibashango, named for the extinct pygmies that lived in the area. Kishenzi spirits are backbush spirits that are very uncouth, while Kiruhani are the very proper and strict spirits, named for the aristocrats from Golden Age of Siyathemba. Kibveni are 'baboon' spirits that afflict teenagers, causing them to run around madly and climb trees with supernatural grace.

The most common elemental spirit possessors are water spirits. They come in two broad types, the Kibayasi which are female and helpful, and the Kimwago, male and fairly dangerous. The MeNgu of Majisafi are also spirit possessors, but much more powerful and complex.

Possessing human spirits are much more difficult to deal with. Ngozi and Dzedzeta ghosts can possess, with terrible consequences, but they are nothing compared to the horror of Vinyamkela.  Ngozi and Dzedzeta can be propiated, but Vinyamkela possession is lethal (and contagious).  Propitiated ghosts become Madhlozi that like in tiny spirit huts. Madholzi are powerful allies. Madzviti are the ghosts of ancient warriors. Their Kilinge are named for the battles in which they died. The Hujuma are the waNewara killed in the Maasai Incursion, for instance. Other human spirits include Zvipunha and Zvaaynagu.

Those who choose to appease their afflictors become 'viti' - literally, 'chairs'. Many species of spirits have formal societies assoicated with them, called Kilinge. Members are mtege/watege. Those who learn the ritual for inducting new members become Mganga wa Usvikirwa. The Kilinge are basically surrogate families, members call each other 'brother' and 'sister', the Waganga are the 'Mothers' and 'Fathers'. Membership has its privileges. Many spirits repay their hosts with special abilities. Also, the Kilinge are useful social organizations. Most victims of spirit Usvikirwa are socially marginalized, especially women. Getting possessed isn't your fault, and it just so happens to give you new opportunities in life.Usvikirwa is the kiKoka word for the phenomenon of spirit possession, a common malady in the real world. It typically begins with the afflicted person experiencing chills, shaking and fever, along with any number of non-specific symptoms. The subject then consults with an mganga, who will rule out any ordinary source for the affliction. The next step is to consult an Mwaguzi, who will use her insight and mystical knowledge to identify the species of spirit afflicting the person. At that point, the person has to make a choice, to exorcise the spirit or appease it.


 

[Lucius]

The Possession Power is in the Advanced Player's Guide; do you have access to that?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says the Repossession Power is in the rental contract

[bigdamnhero]

I've mostly built Spirits with variations on Desolid, mostly Automatons, but I admit that approach is limiting. Or if the spirit really only has one power or effect, it's sometimes easiest to treat them as a Power of the summoning character (or object), treating the "spirit form" as essentially sfx. But if you want the PCs to fully interact with the spirits as characters, you're going to want more than that.

 

I loved the Spirit rules in 4ed Horror Hero and always thought they had potential, tho they definitely needed some more thought & work. (Like most of that book.) Nice to see someone dusting them off, and I like the approach you're taking. Modifying existing stats, rather than just adding additional ones, should make it much easier to referee how Power X interacts with Characteristic Y.

 

One note: rMD and Damage Reduction, Mental, Resistant are already perfectly legal builds under both 5ed and 6ed; there's just not usually much call for them.

[Markdoc]

Maybe I'm a minority of one, but I always hated the spirit rules. They added a lot of new mechanisms that didn't play well with the hero system for (IMO) minimal benefit.

 

For ghosts and things that are "on a plane inaccessible to ordinary mortals", I have always found it easiest to take it literally: they *are* in fact on another plane and can only interact with the 'material plane' if they - or a person on the material plane, such as a medium - have the transdimensional advantage on their powers. How '"powerful" a spirit is is therefore often dependant on how much it can actually manifest in the material plane. A spirit that is a powerful ghost might not be (relatively) so powerful on the spirit plane. Specific foci - such as the teddy hear of a murdered toddler, or the hoard of a miser - are just that: foci. A spirit may require a foci to manifest.

 

Cheers, Mark

[Lord Liaden]

I'll have to take another look at the AI rules. Of course, spirits would be fully sentient, as opposed to standard AI's that need to succeed in an EGO roll before initiating independent thought.

 

If you use spirits as a sort of truly independent/sentient version of an AI, how do you have them interact with the "real" world? AI's are computers, so they have a hardware component to "interface" with people. But spirits don't necessarily have that. I know that the 4th Ed. Horror Hero made use of containers (which could be defined however the GM wanted). For example, living bodies were containers; a haunted house might be a container; and the spirit plane was a container.

 

Do spirits have any movement flexibility if built along the AI-template guidelines? Or are they always (or often, or even sometimes) bound by a container?

 

I would just point out that the stats for an AI don't in themselves specify any sort of container, interface, or other material form. Nor do they grant movement, manipulative, or sensory abilities as a default. The AI has no BODY stat, so can't be damaged by physical force. In this regard it provides IMO an excellent base template for an imperishable, immaterial spirit. The desired details of how a particular spirit moves through, perceives, and interacts with the physical world (in occult lore and fiction, not all spirits can) can be built up with Powers, Disadvantages, and Special Effects.

[Lucius]

I usually assume that an "unfocused" AI or Computer - one that is not bought on a Focus or as part of a Base, Vehicle, or Character - I not actually located at any definite point in the game's space and time and therefore needs the Perceive Other Dimension Adder for sense (if not Clairsentience) to perceive into that three dimensional realm, and Transdimensional on Powers that can effect the game world.

 

They are likewise both undetectable and unaffectable by Character who do not have appropriate sense or Powers.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Have you seen my invisible palindromedary?

[Lucius]

I should probably do up some lesser spirits.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I should put a palindromedary tagline here

I think I'll name this one "Drybb - Hanozoma"

 

Nkwiya That Will Make You Very Sick

 

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

 

1 DEX -18 9- OCV: 1/DCV: 3

5 INT -5 10- PER Roll 10-

 

 

 

1 OCV -10

3 DCV 0

1 OMCV -6

3 DMCV 0

1 SPD -20 Phases: 7

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Characteristic Cost: -59

 

Movement:

 

Cost Powers END

Nkwiye

 

15 1) Tiny - hard for even those with spiritual senses to see: (Total: 24 Active Cost, 15 Real Cost) Invisibility to Spiritual Group , Persistent (+¼), Inherent (+¼), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (20 Active Points); Always On (-½), Bright Fringe (-¼) (Real Cost: 11) plus Stealth (only ONE has to make the roll, for a swarm to be covered) 10-, Personal Immunity (+¼), Usable Nearby (+1) (4 Active Points) (Real Cost: 4) 0

 

2) Slow of action: (Total: 10 Active Cost, 2 Real Cost) +1 SPD (10 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Hour, -3) (Real Cost: 2) 0

 

60 3) Sensorium : (Total: 60 Active Cost, 60 Real Cost) A Single Thing - Blood 10- (Sight Group), Concealed (-5 with PER Rolls), Transmit (Real Cost: 10) plus A Class Of Things - Spirits 10- (Sight Group) (Real Cost: 5) plus Perceive into a single other dimension with Sight Group (Real Cost: 10) plus Discriminatory with Sight Group (Real Cost: 10) plus Microscopic ( x10) with Sight Group (Real Cost: 5) plus Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees) with Sight Group (Real Cost: 10) plus Partially Penetrative with Sight Group (Real Cost: 10) 0

 

20 4) Swarm: (Total: 54 Active Cost, 20 Real Cost) Duplication (creates 16 115-point Duplicates), Inherent (+¼) (54 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Hour, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 ¾), Cannot Recombine (-0) (Real Cost: 20) 0

 

34 5) Increase Swarms: (Total: 215 Active Cost, 34 Real Cost) Summon 16 115-point creatures, Slavishly Devoted (+1), Time Limit (1 Year; +3) (215 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, Character May Take No Other Actions, -4 ¼), Required Multiple Users ([9-16] people; -1) (Real Cost: 34) 21

 

Afflictions, all slots Indirect (Source Point is the Character, path can change with every use; +½), Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +½)

 

13 1) Fever: (Total: 60 Active Cost, 13 Real Cost) Change Environment (+4 Temperature Level Adjustment, -1 CON Roll and all Skill Rolls based on Characteristic, -1 DEX Roll and all Skill Rolls based on Characteristic, -1 INT Roll and all Skill Rolls based on Characteristic), Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +½), Indirect (Source Point is the Character, path can change with every use; +½), Area Of Effect Accurate (1m Radius; +½) (60 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, Only to Activate, -2), Required Multiple Users ([9-16] people; -1), No Range (-½), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Day which Recovers every 1 Week (-¼) (Real Cost: 13) [1 cc]

 

14 2) Lethargy: (Total: 65 Active Cost, 14 Real Cost) Drain STUN 1d6, Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Immunity; All Or Nothing; +0), Area Of Effect Accurate (1m Radius; +½), Damage Over Time, Target's defenses only apply once, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (13-16 damage increments, damage occurs every 1 Hour, +½), Cumulative (48 points; +1 ¼), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Day; +2 ¼) (65 Active Points); 3 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-1 ¾), Required Multiple Users ([33-64] people; -1 ½), No Range (-½) (Real Cost: 14) [3]

 

10 3) Coma and Eventual Death: (Total: 125 Active Cost, 10 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6-1 (standard effect: 7 STUN), Area Of Effect Accurate (1m Radius; +½), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Immunity; All Or Nothing; +1), +5 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1 ¼) (47 Active Points); Damage Over Time, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (33-64 damage increments, damage occurs every 1 Month, -4 ¾), 1 Charge which Recovers every 1 Month (-3), Required Multiple Users ([65-128] people; -1 ¾) (Real Cost: 4) plus Drain REC 1d6+1, Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Immunity; All Or Nothing; +0), Cumulative (28 points; +1), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Season; +3) (78 Active Points); Damage Over Time, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (9-12 damage increments, damage occurs every 1 Week, -4 ½), 1 Charge which Recovers every 1 Season (-3 ½), Extra Time (1 Year, Only to Activate, -3), Required Multiple Users ([9-16] people; -1) (Real Cost: 6) [1]

 

Talents

5 Program (Coordinate with rest of swarm or other swarms, Inflict Afflictions, Jump from host to vector or vice versa, Multiply)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wants to take a nap now

[Lucius]

 

These sort of spirits are responsible for making cheese out of milk, causing bread to rise, and other useful functions.

 

Nkwiya that Prove the Pancreator Loves us and Wants us to be Happy

 

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

 

1 DEX -18 9- OCV: 1/DCV: 3

5 INT -5 10- PER Roll 10-

 

 

 

1 OCV -10

3 DCV 0

1 OMCV -6

3 DMCV 0

1 SPD -20 Phases: 7

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Characteristic Cost: -59

 

Movement:

 

Cost Powers END

Nkwiye

 

15 1) Tiny - hard for even those with spiritual senses to see: (Total: 24 Active Cost, 15 Real Cost) Invisibility to Spiritual Group , Persistent (+¼), Inherent (+¼), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (20 Active Points); Always On (-½), Bright Fringe (-¼) (Real Cost: 11) plus Stealth (only ONE has to make the roll, for a swarm to be covered) 10-, Personal Immunity (+¼), Usable Nearby (+1) (4 Active Points) (Real Cost: 4) 0

 

2 2) Slow of action: (Total: 10 Active Cost, 2 Real Cost) +1 SPD (10 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Hour, -3) (Real Cost: 2) 0

 

40 3) Sensorium: (Total: 40 Active Cost, 40 Real Cost) Sense of Smell and Smell Spirits 10- (Smell/Taste Group), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Microscopic: x10, Perceive into a single other dimension, Range, Targeting, Transmit (Real Cost: 40) 0

 

13 4) Swarm: (Total: 35 Active Cost, 13 Real Cost) Duplication (creates 16 40-point Duplicates), Inherent (+¼) (35 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Hour, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 ¾), Cannot Recombine (-0) (Real Cost: 13) 0

 

18 5) Increase Swarms: (Total: 115 Active Cost, 18 Real Cost) Summon 8 40-point creatures, Slavishly Devoted (+1), Time Limit (1 Year; +3) (115 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, Character May Take No Other Actions, -4 ¼), Required Multiple Users ([9-16] people; -1) (Real Cost: 18) 11

 

3 6) Ferment: Major Transform 2d6, Partial Transform (+½) (30 Active Points); Damage Over Time, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (4 damage increments, damage occurs every 1 Day, -4 ¼), 1 Charge which Recovers every 1 Week (-2 ½), Required Multiple Users ([9-16] people; -1), Limited Target ([Very Limited]; -1), No Range (-½) [1]

 

Talents

5 Program (Coordinate with rest of swarm or other swarms, Ferment, Jump from host to vector or vice versa, Multiply)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says, I'll drink to that!

[Lucius]

Maybe I'm a minority of one, but I always hated the spirit rules. They added a lot of new mechanisms that didn't play well with the hero system for (IMO) minimal benefit.

 

For ghosts and things that are "on a plane inaccessible to ordinary mortals", I have always found it easiest to take it literally: they *are* in fact on another plane and can only interact with the 'material plane' if they - or a person on the material plane, such as a medium - have the transdimensional advantage on their powers. How '"powerful" a spirit is is therefore often dependant on how much it can actually manifest in the material plane. A spirit that is a powerful ghost might not be (relatively) so powerful on the spirit plane. Specific foci - such as the teddy hear of a murdered toddler, or the hoard of a miser - are just that: foci. A spirit may require a foci to manifest.

 

Cheers, Mark

 

I've actually never seen the famous spirit rules.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Nor has the palindromedary

[Manic Typist]

There are spirit rules??

[dmjalund]

Some are in Horror HERO

[Chris Goodwin]

They were in HERO System Almanac 1 and Horror Hero.  

[Nolgroth]

I liked them but they were ultimately too cumbersome to bother with. Besides, I think more recent iterations of Hero have mechanics that achieve much of the same thing without the mechanical gymnastics. Maybe the 4th edition rules might still work, but yeah, Spirit rules are not the best way to interpret spirits. I like the AI variant above more. Lucius is pretty darn clever with that.

[Chris Goodwin]

I liked them but they were ultimately too cumbersome to bother with. Besides, I think more recent iterations of Hero have mechanics that achieve much of the same thing without the mechanical gymnastics. Maybe the 4th edition rules might still work, but yeah, Spirit rules are not the best way to interpret spirits. I like the AI variant above more. Lucius is pretty darn clever with that.

 

I kinda thought the AI rules required some gymnastics, though they are probably the best way to do it while remaining fully rules legal in 5e/6e.  Some of the assumptions baked into the Spirits rules need to be built, or at least specified by the GM, if using AIs.  I'd probably use James Jandebeur's Incomplete Characters rules (link goes to the Wayback Machine), myself.  

[Nolgroth]

Spirits are kind of a rules gymnastics exercise no matter which way you slice them. Still, I like exploring off the beaten path variations so I am open to looking at a bunch of ideas.

[Mzimwi]

I have lots of material on how spirts are viewed in real world Africa - mostly scientific articles from JSTOR. If you nix the Bantu words, most of it is generally applicable.  Here are a few samples, each from a different article:

 

 

A ghost {muzimu, plural mizimu) is the disembodied spirit of
someone who has died. When a man is alive this vital principle is
called mwoyo (plural myoyo), which may be rather loosely translated
as "soul," and it is believed to dwell in the breast or diaphragm.
But a ghost is not just a person who has died; it is a being of quite a
different order from the living. Though it possesses human attributes
it is not human. A Nyoro who wishes to threaten another with
posthumous vengeance for some injury does not say, "I shall haunt
you when I die"; he says, "I shall leave you a ghost" (ndikulekera
muzimu). Ghosts are left by people, but they are not people. This
is implied also by the fact that the noun class to which the word
muzimu belongs is not that of "people" {muntu, plural bantu) but
that of a certain class of things, a class which includes in particular
most kinds of trees and other plants.

 

The Ghost Cult in Bunyoro
J. H. M. Beattie

 

 

 

F OR Kalanga of Southern Rhodesia hereditary guardian spirits known as mazenge2
are a sanction on correct relations among kinsmen and affines. Only women are
possessed by these captious guardian spirits; and I shall refer to such spirit-possessed
women as mazenge hosts. Kalanga perform a ritual of atonement3 seasonally and
whenever the illness of the host or of any of her kinsfolk, particularly children, is
attributed to the affliction of a guardian spirit. Ritual obligations then draw together
a congregation typically not of agnates and other cognates alone, but also of affines.

 

ATONEMENT RITUAL AND GUARDIAN-SPIRIT
POSSESSION AMONG KALANGA

 

 

Different spirits may compete to possess one medium, and each such spirit may have its own pantheon of mashave spirits. Many spirits may end up possessing one medium for a variety of reasons. Some spirits possess a medium because they are attracted to the medium, while some possess a medium because they have nowhere else to go to, and others possess a medium as payback for services rendered. The different spirits will come in with their entourage of mashave spirits to possess a medium who has become attractive as a result of cleansing that removes unwanted spirits. Spirits cause people to gather, exchange views, and enjoy themselves in the name of the spirits and God. God and spirits are believed to enjoy such gatherings, which demonstrate the oneness of people, spirits, and God.

 

 

The Relationship between God and People in Shona Traditional Religion

[Ninja-Bear]

Fantasy companion II I believe also have them.