Tassyr Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 So I'm new to the whole HERO system; I cut my teeth on Pathfinder/GURPS. This is my first attempt to use this thing and the sheer amount of stats makes my head swim a bit. I'm getting past that, sort of, but the big problem I'm hitting is... what's a reasonable stat? I mean technically I can crank these things through the roof at chargen, but I have no idea what a 'good starting template' would be. I checked out the MHI Hunter template, but that seems relatively... weak... somehow. I have -no- idea what number values to shoot for! Help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Here's a quick version. The 'average' normal has a characteristic of 8 for STR through PRE. Player characters get the boost to a 10 base in those stats for 'free'. Through a score of 20 the stats match up pretty close to old AD&D 1&2e stats (I don't know how that compares to D&D3.x/Pathfinder though). The basic rule of thumb is that anything over 30 for those stats is clearly in Supers territory. 20-30 is exceptional but not out of the question for normals (Bruce Lee arguably had a 30 Dex and 6 SPD, at least in this 5e version). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassyr Posted August 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Here's a quick version. The 'average' normal has a characteristic of 8 for STR through PRE. Player characters get the boost to a 10 base in those stats for 'free'. Through a score of 20 the stats match up pretty close to old AD&D 1&2e stats (I don't know how that compares to D&D3.x/Pathfinder though). The basic rule of thumb is that anything over 30 for those stats is clearly in Supers territory. 20-30 is exceptional but not out of the question for normals (Bruce Lee arguably had a 30 Dex and 6 SPD, at least in this 5e version). So for a char based on heavy guns and melee, str cranked up to 20 would be... good? Underpowered? Overpowered? I know I can't get to 30 at chargen, but. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 For most characters, a 15 STR would probably be sufficient, allowing you to use most guns without a penalty and do an extra die of normal damage in punches/kicks. An 18-20 STR is for more "hulking" types. And once you go over 20, you are definitely into action movie muscle man territory. Cranking up to a 20 STR would be a solid choice for a character as you describe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassyr Posted August 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 For most characters, a 15 STR would probably be sufficient, allowing you to use most guns without a penalty and do an extra die of normal damage in punches/kicks. An 18-20 STR is for more "hulking" types. And once you go over 20, you are definitely into action movie muscle man territory. Cranking up to a 20 STR would be a solid choice for a character as you describe. Excellent, thanks. Any other advice? I've literally never made a char before for this system- so anything you could toss my way would be welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Based on the character writeups in the book 20 is good. I agree that they seem a little low compared to other Hero System stuff. But if you plan on using the included monster writeups it's better to stay at the same scale. I am far more in to supers and have converted many member of the Justice League into HERO and my Superman only has a 22 Dex and 4 SPD and my Flash only has a 27 DEX and 6 SPD. They are scaled to each other but not to the published Champions Universe. Scaling of detail when creating HERO characters is very dependent on the setting/gameworld they will be used within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 If you have the MHI book, I'd suggest looking through the write-ups for the characters from the book and using one of them for a model on characteristics. Take a look at how Owen is written up. He's a pretty buff guy in the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassyr Posted August 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 If you have the MHI book, I'd suggest looking through the write-ups for the characters from the book and using one of them for a model on characteristics. Take a look at how Owen is written up. He's a pretty buff guy in the books. Honestly considering the story he's from I figured he'd be RIDICULOUSLY OP; the guy in story is basically invincible and capable of doing things like beating a gargoyle (Stone creature) to death with a TIRE IRON. I was looking for a bit less broken than -that!- xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Honestly considering the story he's from I figured he'd be RIDICULOUSLY OP; the guy in story is basically invincible and capable of doing things like beating a gargoyle (Stone creature) to death with a TIRE IRON. I was looking for a bit less broken than -that!- xD I agree. I would have built him in the 20-25 STR range. However, Steve Long has basically said that he consulted with Larry C. (the author of the source material and HERO System fan) when building the characters from the stories. So while they don't seem balanced against other HERO material they should be very well balanced against the published setting baddies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redner Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Attached is my way of allocating CPs to Characteristics. I borrowed the concept from Savage Worlds and World of Darkness. Characters start out as weak humans. Filling in the dots helps visualize how "humanly" competent a character is. If players wants to go beyond the human maxima (e.g. STR above 20), then they will have to use my house rule of using the Characteristics power. The way I see it, Superman visually looks like he has a STR of 20, but in "reality" his STR is insane. Characteristics-Human.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogwar Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Is there another source for templates? I like the MHI Template, and that got me thinking what about "common" profession templates. LIke Cop, Elite Soldier, Teacher, Computer Programmer, teenager. These seem like common places for people to start with character Gen. Applying those templates at creation makes it easier to manage. Jow was a Navy Seal and on a mission with them came in and found (People from books not spoiled) had fought of deep ones. Knowing things that go bump in the night are real he signed up for MHI. (Stats for Elite Solider [Navy Seal] 40 points, Stats for MHI 44 points) I bet you are really close to stating out a starting character. I see a lot of templates under Hero Designer but not a lot of "Stat block" writeups for these Templates. If there is not a repository for this information, could I make some up and post them here for critique? -Oggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 "Dark Champions" contains a wealth of information on such things, including packages for soldiers, private investigators, police and other law enforcement agencies. It's available in the Hero Store as a PDF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Dark Champions I am sure has a package for special forces soldiers such as SEALS. And as Steve pointed out, tons more, plus more information about guns and ammo than you'd find in an issue of Guns and Ammo Lucius Alexander It does not have a palindromedary, but it doesn't need one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogwar Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Thank you, I need to hold off just grabbed MHI and Volumes 1 and 2 of the Hero System... Funds are good, but not, "buy a new game each week" good...ahhh... to dream the gamers dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 I just checked the Hero store, and "Dark Champions" is selling for $10. It's a bargain at that price and makes a good addition to MHI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogwar Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I have Dark Champions now and it is a wealth of information. Thanks for the tip. So Beastiary or Equipment next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 If you're a player, then the equipment guide. If a GM, the bestiary would be my choice after Dark Champions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeward2534 Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 If you're a player, then the equipment guide. If a GM, the bestiary would be my choice after Dark Champions. Definitely have to agree with this statement. I happen to have both the bestiary and the equipment guide. I have only once cracked open the bestiary as a player (just to look at best way to build a bird familiar), but the equipment guide is used every time as a player. When I GM I heavily use the bestiary and almost never use the equipment guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 It just means the gargoyles where slow(speed 1 or 2 vs a speed 4 Owen)also haymakers can add another 4d6(6d6 if pushing } Honestly considering the story he's from I figured he'd be RIDICULOUSLY OP; the guy in story is basically invincible and capable of doing things like beating a gargoyle (Stone creature) to death with a TIRE IRON. I was looking for a bit less broken than -that!- xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 I don't have MHI, but isn't it like every other Hero game book ever published in that it explains that a normal human, with 0 points allocated to characteristics has a 10 in the core stats, and that 20 is the normal characteristic maxima? And at 0, most characteristics are essentially non-functional. Which means normal humans have a range of 0-20, with the "realistic" range being 3-18 (and in 30 years of playing this system, I've never been convinced that is coincidence...if nothing else it gives D&Ders familiar ground to stand upon when getting their feet wet in Hero). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 A PC starts with 10 in each stat. PC's are generally a bit better than an average person. A "normal person" with 0 points total would spend the points from selling down to 8's on the occasional stat where they may be better than the norm, as well as skills. I haven't read MHI - will the Dark Champions templates be reasonable when compared to the MHI templates? I expect they will, as I would suspect Dark Champions was the template for a 'typical" Monster Hunter, just like it is for a typical cop, soldier, SEAL, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 what's a reasonable stat? The Characteristic Comparison Table on MHI p90 is a good guide. I would have built [Owen] in the 20-25 STR range. Absolutely. As they're written up now, Owen's not even twice as strong as his wife, who's described as fit but not particularly buff. Also, now that you've bought the 6ed books, take a look at the note about "Toolkitting the Strength Table" on 6e1 p43. Short version: Lifting STR is the only characteristic that's "benchmarked" in reality, so if you want a wider range of stats all you have to do is redefine Lifting STR to wherever you want it. (I went with 10 STR = 75 kg, doubling every +5 STR from there.) "Dark Champions" contains a wealth of information on such things... Agreed, tho note that DC is for 5th edition, so some of the characteristics won't line up 1-for-1, but you should be able to extrapolate. And the templates may not give significant boosts to "secondary" characteristics - ie everything after PRE - so you'll probably need to buy those up. (Reason being: 5th Ed used Figured Characteristics, so buying up Con would in turn increase your Stun, End, etc. In 6ed you'll have to buy those up separately.) So Beastiary or Equipment next? I think both are indispensable, but...in this case I'd probably say Bestiary. The Equipment Guide is great, especially if you're running/playing multiple genres. but MHI already has a fairly extensive guns list, and it shouldn't be too hard to extrapolate anything not on the list. Unless your players are hard-core gun nuts enthusiasts, and you think the monsters included in the book will last you until you can afford to pick up another book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Agreed, tho note that DC is for 5th edition, so some of the characteristics won't line up 1-for-1, but you should be able to extrapolate. And the templates may not give significant boosts to "secondary" characteristics - ie everything after PRE - so you'll probably need to buy those up. (Reason being: 5th Ed used Figured Characteristics, so buying up Con would in turn increase your Stun, End, etc. In 6ed you'll have to buy those up separately.) 5e Hero System is very compatible with 6e Hero System, or the 6.1e of the Complete books, compared to changes between most D&D editions. That being said, there are differences, but translating the templates shouldn't take long, relative to the task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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