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Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND

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"The filmmakers behind “Black Panther” were intent on creating a vibrant Afrocentric world, and to bringing a culture Hollywood has habitually ignored or denigrated to glorious notice."

 

While the above may be true, I don't think that is a reason to give the movie a Best Picture Oscar. It is a reason to give it a Socio-Political Awareness Award, if Hollywood ever invents one, but not a Best Picture Oscar.

 

I feel that in the race to turn everything political, including all of our entertainment, Hollywood is forgetting that the vast majority of the time movies are simply that: entertainment, and not some grand platform for social change. If a movie has to be the celluloid equivalent of a Nelson Mandela to win an Oscar, then the entire industry is headed for a crash worthy of the Daytona 500.

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57 minutes ago, zslane said:

 If a movie has to be the celluloid equivalent of a Nelson Mandela to win an Oscar, then the entire industry is headed for a crash worthy of the Daytona 500. 

 

It doesn't "have to be" (those are your words and show up nowhere in the article) but it is certainly a reason to be considered. The merit of an artistic work is as much the message it is conveying as the technique and craftsmanship in producing the message as well sa the artfulness and effectiveness of presenting that message. How that art transforms (the whole point of art) is absolutely worth considering. 

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40 minutes ago, Old Man said:

What movies do you think are more deserving of Best Picture?  I'm just curious; to be honest I don't even know which films have been nominated.

 

A Quiet Place was the best movie I saw last year.

 

Don't think it was nominated though.

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6 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Honestly I watch so few movies lately I couldn't really list the best of last year.  The oscars are kind of a joke anyway, pretentious, boring and just back door advertising for a product while super rich and self important people award themselves for doing their jobs.

 

They are a joke, and I don't watch them, but they are a social touchstone, so often worth discussion.

 

I find a really interesting question would be... say a movie came out that, out of nowhere, displayed technological and craft developments that utterly transform how movies are made, the same way talkies, color, the steady-cam and CGI transformed movies. (I have no idea what this would be, just theoretical). Unmistakable is the notion that, say, the editing, special effects and cinematography would utterly transform how movies are made going forward.


Now let's say that these miracle achievements were developed while making a movie that was a murderous screed depicting actual incidents of killing, rape, torture and cannibalism while presenting the institutionalized torture-slaughter of people and kittens as the highest social virtue.  (I mean... just imagine the absolutely most hideous aspects of humanity presented as the greatest virtue.) This movie is so powerful it inspires waves of genocidal violence across the globe.

 

But holy crap, the technical achievements are AMAZING!

 

So what happens at award time? Would this film still be recognized as a great work in the areas of technical/craft achievement, even if millions suffered and died because of it?

 

Even if you take it down several notches, and say the movie is just a plodding, badly written, incompetently directed buddy movie with '70s era racist overtones. Does it still get nominated for Editing and Cinematography or whatever? 


At what point can you separate the craft of movie making from the end result of the particular movie being made? Seems a fools game, at best.

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This discussion highlights that the term, "best," is such an amalgam of subjective responses, individual viewpoints, and personal biases, no two people will be in complete agreement even on how to define it, let alone what examples of an entertainment like movies represent it.

 

The Best Picture Oscar will represent what the majority of voting members of the Academy consider Best Picture. You can take that for what it's worth.

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While we can disagree on exactly which movie is best in a set, we can all agree that a set belongs in the discussion and others do not.

 

Casablanca, Citizen Kane, Bicycle Thief, etc belong and we can fight over which is the best.

Earnest goes to Camp, Plan 9 from Outer Space, Howard the duck, do not.

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2019 Oscar nominations for Best Picture:

 

“Black Panther”
“BlacKkKlansman”
“Bohemian Rhapsody”
“The Favourite”
“Green Book”
“Roma”
“A Star Is Born”
“Vice”

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4 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

While we can disagree on exactly which movie is best in a set, we can all agree that a set belongs in the discussion and others do not.

 

Casablanca, Citizen Kane, Bicycle Thief, etc belong and we can fight over which is the best.

Earnest goes to Camp, Plan 9 from Outer Space, Howard the duck, do not.

 

Forrest Gump, Titanic, Return of the King, etc.?

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1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Howard the duck, do not.

 

Them's fightin' words!!  

 

Heh... seriously, the movie was bad, but I never understand how it always gets used as an example of bad. There are infinitely worse movies out there. I would rate the original Howard the Duck above Guardians of the Galaxy 2 any day.

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3 hours ago, Old Man said:

What movies do you think are more deserving of Best Picture?  I'm just curious; to be honest I don't even know which films have been nominated.

 

The only one that I've seen on the list of Best Picture nominees is Black Panther, and I had to look up several of them to figure out what they were about.

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1 hour ago, Old Man said:

2019 Oscar nominations for Best Picture:

 

“Black Panther”
“BlacKkKlansman”
“Bohemian Rhapsody”
“The Favourite”
“Green Book”
“Roma”
“A Star Is Born”
“Vice”

 

I've not seen them all, but what I have (Star, Roma, Black Panther, Bohemian, Favourite) I would choose Roma. It is the most powerful and moving use of cinema of those. 

 

My favorite movie of last year was "Sorry To Bother You" followed by "Mandy"

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On 2/18/2019 at 9:48 AM, zslane said:

Robert Downey Jr. was a Hollywood bad boy, and everyone seems to love those. Brie Larson, on the other hand, is getting painted as an SJW activist at a time when gender politics are especially divisive in this country. That's not going to play well to those who are exhausted by all the socio-political maneuvering going on in Hollywood right now.

 

That's me, and I live there. (Well Korea-Town, about 1 mile south of Melrose Ave.)

 

On 2/18/2019 at 9:48 AM, zslane said:

 

I am largely underwhelmed by the trailers as well, and am hoping the movie will be a lot better than the trailers suggest. I never cared for the Brie Larson casting; I am in the camp that wanted to see someone far more charismatic like Charlize Theron. And while I understand that Theron wasn't available or wasn't interested, that doesn't make Larson a good choice. One has to wonder how she ended up regarded as the best alternative to (someone like) Theron.

 

I thought someone like Katie Sackoff would have made a much more dynamic superhero. She has more acting range than Larson does.

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23 minutes ago, RDU Neil said:

 

Them's fightin' words!!  

 

Heh... seriously, the movie was bad, but I never understand how it always gets used as an example of bad. There are infinitely worse movies out there. I would rate the original Howard the Duck above Guardians of the Galaxy 2 any day.

 

Really? Hmmm.

As for Bad movies there are a lot worse than Howard the Duck. Howard the Duck just lacked any sort of charm. But examples of worse movies... Live action or animated? XD

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3 hours ago, RDU Neil said:

say a movie came out that, out of nowhere, displayed technological and craft developments that utterly transform how movies are made

 

There is a Technical Achievement Award for purely technical advances. I don't think we need to conflate technical breakthroughs with excellence in cinematic storytelling. A Best Picture award ought to go to whichever movie told the most moving and/or entertaining story in the most moving and/or entertaining fashion, irrespective of the technologies used in doing so.

 

In terms of content, I feel that being politically thought-provoking can be a factor in making a movie moving and/or entertaining, but too much of the time it becomes a factor in a movie being less of an entertainment experience and more of a political lecture in narrative form. If that's going to be what the Academy responds to more than any other factor, then either they need a new category (Best Political Screed? Best Social Media Event?) to go along side Best Picture, Best Documentary, and Best Animated/Comedy, or they really need to come to terms with their growing obsolescence.

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1 hour ago, Scott Ruggels said:

I thought someone like Katie Sackoff would have made a much more dynamic superhero. She has more acting range than Larson does.

 

Katie Sackhoff and Katheryn Winnick were my top two, but I'm open to seeing what Larson does with the part.

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48 minutes ago, Bazza said:

The Best Picture award is for the film the majority in the Academy feels/thinks/believes has the highest quality for that year. 

 

Quality can be subjective or objective. 

 

Granted. However, if the Academy is going to make political moralizing an essential element of their subjective definition of quality storytelling, then I fear their relevance will decline even further in the eyes of the general public. They may not care about that, but studios and producers will care about it if having Oscar winners in their projects ceases to add anything to box office success due to eroded public regard for the significance of the awards.

 

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Well, "political moralizing" can be overt, or integrated naturally into the story. IMO Black Panther, and Wonder Woman, are examples of the latter. They were cultural touchstones because they struck fundamental elements of human history and society; but those elements were a natural part of the world their characters found themselves in, and their journey of self-discovery through that world.

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