Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND

[Ternaugh]

9 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Depending on the property, absolutely. Something meant for boys should stay that way. There are shoes for girls too, and they have a right to succeed and stay that way as well. 

 

What properties are only "meant for boys"? What properties are only "meant for girls"? Dr Who has always featured strong female characters, and the audience demographics are split pretty much down the middle when it comes to gender. There's a large male following for My Little Pony, which was originally to sell toys to girls. Fandoms expand, or they die.

 

Is Hero System only meant for boys? What about D&D? Pathfinder?

Is it wrong for me to give out Hot Wheels to girls and boys on Halloween?

 

And back to topic, are comic books and their various spin-offs only for boys, or can girls like the Guardians of the Galaxy or the Avengers, too?

[unclevlad]

2 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Kevin Feige “embarrassed” over Disney’s response to Scarlett Johansson suit
 

https://www.salon.com/2021/08/04/kevin-feige-embarrassed-over-disneys-response-to-scarlett-johansson-suit_partner-2/

 

It looks like the profits from streaming the films goes to studio executives only, and those used to back end bonuses are unhappy. There may be strikes over this in the near future b

 

"Back end bonuses" are a major part of the contract compensation.  Disney's playing very fast and loose.  Streaming was third...theatrical release, DVD and PPV, then streaming.  This suggests the streaming would be a relatively low-value aspect.  Disney made it co-primary.  On the assumption that the percentage of streaming revenue going to the actors, is significantly lower than the earlier phases...the shift to streaming immediately, can be read as a deliberate move to circumvent the contractual obligations.

 

The interesting parts to me are at the very end.

 

Quote

Belloni reports that Emma Stone is "weighing her options" over whether to sue Disney for releasing her movie "Cruella" in both theaters and on Disney+. And Disney is reportedly reaching out to stars to do the renegotiations it didn't do with Johansson.

 

The first suggests pattern and practice, altho this won't affect that many movies so far.  The second suggests Disney may recognize their legal basis isn't very good.  After being burned in the writers' situation, they should think so, I would say.  But it makes their response to SJ rather egregious.  Some people inside Disney's legal arm have probably been roasted over the coals.

[slikmar]

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

The first suggests pattern and practice, altho this won't affect that many movies so far.  The second suggests Disney may recognize their legal basis isn't very good.  After being burned in the writers' situation, they should think so, I would say.  But it makes their response to SJ rather egregious.  Some people inside Disney's legal arm have probably been roasted over the coals.

Yeah, I found that last part interesting too. It also says they are trying to get ahead of the curve, PR wise, because after their response SJ, last thing they want is Stone and others coming out and saying the same thing as SJ. So, settle with them first and include a gag order in it so SJ seems on an island. The whole response to the lawsuit makes me wonder if this had been RDJ or one of the other male leads, would they have responded the same? Will be interesting to see if Love and Thunder they do the same thing, release both and the responses from Hemsworth and Portman would be.

[unclevlad]

30 minutes ago, slikmar said:

Yeah, I found that last part interesting too. It also says they are trying to get ahead of the curve, PR wise, because after their response SJ, last thing they want is Stone and others coming out and saying the same thing as SJ. So, settle with them first and include a gag order in it so SJ seems on an island. The whole response to the lawsuit makes me wonder if this had been RDJ or one of the other male leads, would they have responded the same? Will be interesting to see if Love and Thunder they do the same thing, release both and the responses from Hemsworth and Portman would be.

 

Given Disney's similar actions?  I lean to straight corporate greed, rather than sexism.

 

I can readily see your tactical analysis, tho.  Even if you can't win in court, you can largely quash it by winning the PR battle...and a great way to do that is to make SJ seem like a lone wolf.

[csyphrett]

The next film with the twin release is Jungle Cruise. I doubt the Rock will be treated the same way. He gets two checks for every movie he makes.

CES 

[Grailknight]

So Emily Blunt's contact and compensation will be looked at pretty closely.

[unclevlad]

Might be interesting to see how this goes.

 

It wouldn't surprise me, tho, if Jungle Cruise was never slated for a huge theatrical gate.  This one *screams* Stream Me On Disney, since it's practically an infomercial promoting the parks.  

[Bazza]

Dwayne Johnson reportedly has “no intention” of following Scarlett Johansson with Disney lawsuit
https://www.nme.com/en_au/news/film/dwayne-johnson-reportedly-has-no-intention-of-following-scarlett-johansson-with-disney-lawsuit-3009223

Dwayne Johnson Backing Out Of Joining Scarlett Johansson In Legal Battle With Disney

https://www.thathashtagshow.com/2021/08/03/dwayne-johnson-backing-out-of-joining-scarlett-johansson-in-legal-battle-with-disney/

 

Dwayne Johnson Responds To Scarlett Johansson's 'Black Widow' Lawsuit
https://www.gamingbible.co.uk/news/games-black-widow-dwayne-johnson-responds-to-scarlett-johanssons-lawsuit-20210802

 

With Dwayne Johnson agreeing to Jungle Cruise release both in theatres & Disney+ there may not be a case for Emily Blunt. But no word yet if she is going Scarlett Johansson in fighting Disney.  

[zslane]

 

[Lord Liaden]

It does look as though Scrooge McDuck should replace Mickey Mouse as the Disney mascot.

[Scott Ruggels]

On 8/6/2021 at 7:09 AM, Ternaugh said:

 

What properties are only "meant for boys"? What properties are only "meant for girls"? Dr Who has always featured strong female characters, and the audience demographics are split pretty much down the middle when it comes to gender. There's a large male following for My Little Pony, which was originally to sell toys to girls. Fandoms expand, or they die.

 

Is Hero System only meant for boys? What about D&D? Pathfinder?

Is it wrong for me to give out Hot Wheels to girls and boys on Halloween?

 

And back to topic, are comic books and their various spin-offs only for boys, or can girls like the Guardians of the Galaxy or the Avengers, too?

 Some Girls, Yes, but most girls probably could not care less. It's about averages, and finding a property that resonates with the average boy or girl. Most boys aren't that interested Jane Austen, at least until they find a girlfriend who loves it. On average, boys and girls have different interests in entertainment.  You bring up Pathfinder, and D&D. Those are gaining popularity with women and girls, but it's because of the roleplay element that they became interesting to them, Before that when it was miniatures wargaming, they had no interest. Historical Wargaming is still primarily a male hobby.

 

In general I think that  this commenter has a better explanation than I can give.

 

Fandoms tend not to expand much after their initial growth, and tend to die off with their generational cohort. Not a lot of fan activity for  The Shadow, or The Lone Ranger, any more. There are exceptions, like the afore mentioned jane Austen, but books are much different (being a product of a singular imagination). Other than D&D, and Traveller,  I don't expect a lot of new blood into old RPG systems.

[Ternaugh]

37 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said:

 Some Girls, Yes, but most girls probably could not care less. It's about averages, and finding a property that resonates with the average boy or girl. Most boys aren't that interested Jane Austen, at least until they find a girlfriend who loves it. On average, boys and girls have different interests in entertainment.  You bring up Pathfinder, and D&D. Those are gaining popularity with women and girls, but it's because of the roleplay element that they became interesting to them, Before that when it was miniatures wargaming, they had no interest. Historical Wargaming is still primarily a male hobby.

 

In general I think that  this commenter has a better explanation than I can give.

 

Fandoms tend not to expand much after their initial growth, and tend to die off with their generational cohort. Not a lot of fan activity for  The Shadow, or The Lone Ranger, any more. There are exceptions, like the afore mentioned jane Austen, but books are much different (being a product of a singular imagination). Other than D&D, and Traveller,  I don't expect a lot of new blood into old RPG systems.

 

The simplest answer for the fans is to not purchase the offending product. If, as is argued in previous posts and this video, the fans are the ones that truly matter, and who generate the most support for a franchise, it should send a message to the Hollywood elites that they won't be making money when they offend the trufans.

 

As an aside, I do find it amusing that the video used so much from Star Trek, given its history of social progressiveness, tracing all the way back to the original series.

 

 

[Scott Ruggels]

10 minutes ago, Ternaugh said:

 

The simplest answer for the fans is to not purchase the offending product. If, as is argued in previous posts and this video, the fans are the ones that truly matter, and who generate the most support for a franchise, it should send a message to the Hollywood elites that they won't be making money when they offend the trufans.

 

That would be true , if money was the priority.  It's not as important as proving they are part of the "in crowd" in Hollywood.  But, as the numbers dip, and the marketing fails, they blame it on COVID. some of them are taking notice.  Star Wars underperformed in the Box office, and that was before COVID, and I believe Marvel has peaked with Avengers: End Game, and is on  a decline. While I do want to see Shang Chi, I don't think it's box office will be as good as Black Widow, and I think The Eternals will do even less. (The Eternals Trailer looked awful).  In general the quality of the writing, and the faithfulness to the source material, if not actually basing the scripts on earlier comics material, would slow the decline to a more natural curve, so Comic Book movies would gracefully decline, like Westerns, rather than fall precipitously.

 

10 minutes ago, Ternaugh said:

 

As an aside, I do find it amusing that the video used so much from Star Trek, given its history of social progressiveness, tracing all the way back to the original series.

 

 

Star Trek, even in it's early days was allegorical, rather than being on the nose. And while being liberal in it's view points, presented both sides, and never sacrificed entertainment for the message. It was thoughtful, and in most cases logical in it's plot progression, and was in general Optimistic about the future. It was a show about adventure. 

 

The creator of that video, is well known to be  negatively critical of the Current Alex Kurtzman version of Star Trek, and has been vocal about how bad he sees it to be. He will include clips of it.  Basically in his mind it's been ruined by contemporary identity politics, and "The Rule of Cool".  Rather than the sober, generally optimistic, and collegial tone of The previous shows.

[unclevlad]

Happened to just find this story about the Disney-SJ situation.  It provides the context for what's happening:

 

https://www.theverge.com/22611516/scarlett-johansson-disney-lawsuit-streaming-services-transparency

[Bazza]

It seems, streaming companies are just a modern iteration of the Hollywood studio system with the exception being the talent has been subcontracted.  

[zslane]

In a way, streaming services are like owning theaters again. Studios were divested of their theater ownerships back in 1948, and now they have complete control over the exhibition of their content again. I can't help but wonder if this will lead to another anti-trust case from the government at some point.

[Grailknight]

It can't or else it would already be precedented by broadcast TV. At most it'll go to the premium/ no commercials or free with commercials model.

[unclevlad]

There probably won't be anti-trust because there are plenty of independent or semi-independent venues...Apple TV, HBO, Netflix, Prime Video off the top of my head...to go with CBS, NBC, Disney, and Paramount.  

 

The losers in this game may be:

a)  the theaters, where ticket sales will be sharply reduced.  You're looking at maybe 2 weeks for a big picture, instead of 4 at blitz level (our 10-plex dedicated 5 to End Game, I think, at the start) and 2-3 more at reduced levels.

b)  Studios that don't have streaming tie-ins...MGM and Lionsgate are probably the 2 biggest.  There's also DreamWorks.

[Ternaugh]

4 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

There probably won't be anti-trust because there are plenty of independent or semi-independent venues...Apple TV, HBO, Netflix, Prime Video off the top of my head...to go with CBS, NBC, Disney, and Paramount.  

 

The losers in this game may be:

a)  the theaters, where ticket sales will be sharply reduced.  You're looking at maybe 2 weeks for a big picture, instead of 4 at blitz level (our 10-plex dedicated 5 to End Game, I think, at the start) and 2-3 more at reduced levels.

b)  Studios that don't have streaming tie-ins...MGM and Lionsgate are probably the 2 biggest.  There's also DreamWorks.

 

MGM is being purchased by Amazon.

Lionsgate owns Starz, and has announced that Starz will be the exclusive streaming home for Lionsgate's theatrical releases.

DreamWorks Pictures films are currently released through Universal, but a block of older films are controlled by Disney, and even older films are controlled by Paramount. All three have their own streaming services.

DreamWorks Animation is owned by Universal.

[unclevlad]

Ahh...

 

So the losers are the theaters.

 

I'm also hearing that the bar to entry might be getting rather high.  Production studio AND streaming service?  That's a lot to build.

[Pattern Ghost]

Nah, the losers are the consumers. We'll have to have fifteen different streaming services to watch movies.

[unclevlad]

16 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said:

Nah, the losers are the consumers. We'll have to have fifteen different streaming services to watch movies.

 

True.  The sports market is fragmenting in much the same way, as local broadcasts get splintered among a huge number of regional networks, AND what any one provider carries gets squeezed by more and more streaming.  

 

But of course that doesn't affect blackout rules.  Grrrr.......

[Christopher R Taylor]

Anti Trust laws and judgements in congress would NEVER allow any other industry to coalesce around so few megacorps controlling all entertainment, but they do not seem to care about this sector of the economy at all.

[unclevlad]

Antitrust laws allow, currently, 3 cell network providers.  While there may be diverse cable providers, I believe each has a monopoly in their service areas.  Yeah, they broke up monolithic AT&T but the baby bells have no direct competition;  it's indirect at best.  My phone service is VoIP with a cable-based network connection.  Microsoft can't be forced to separate their OS and office products sectors;  that's a move that's been pushed because combining them makes competition nearly impossible.

 

I don't think your position is well-established here.

[Bazza]

I’d be surprised if antitrust is heard of again.