Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND

[RDU Neil]

37 minutes ago, Starlord said:

 

 

Yes please! Holy crap that looks good. The first season is my favorite of all the Marvel shows (just edging out Daredevil Season 1) and this looks just as strong. Here's hoping.

[Matt the Bruins]

3 hours ago, zslane said:

Yet with movies like Wonder Woman (which I absolutely adored) and Black Panther (which I expect to like very much), we are all expected to celebrate its "cultural importance" and disregard its objective merits as a piece of cinematic storytelling. Impartial criticism is simply not allowed in the highly-charged atmosphere of BLM and Me Too that is shaping the acceptable groupthink today. Nobody is trying to marginalize the importance of these movies to their respective target demos, but we ought to be allowed to assess them from a more objective perspective without being called out as insensitive or dismissive.

 

Allow me to refer you to the following from this very thread:

4 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

The truth is, these movies are not in any sense some kind of barrier-shattering world breaking new experience that redefines culture.  But with the right hype and advertising, people who don't know any better can think it is, and that's good business.

 

There are actually quite a lot of people who try to marginalize the importance of any entertainment (or educational material, or legislation) that's aimed at a demographic or subculture that they themselves don't belong to, apparently taking personal umbrage at praise being given to something that wasn't created with them in mind as the principal beneficiary. And in the majority of my experience, the people having that reaction and acting as if disagreement with their assessment is oppression are straight WASP men. Look at posts in this thread, so invested in arguing people out of their "wrong" high opinions of the quality and impact of cultural phenomena centered on women or people of color and characterizing people who are enthusiastic about such things as ignorant and deluded rather than simply stating that the media in question didn't have that profound impact or effect on them.

[zslane]

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Real excitement for a movie can't be bought.

 

Most studios don't aim for "real excitement," but aim for "sufficient curiosity". Whatever gets you to buy a ticket. Studios learned that they could indeed turn a movie with poor pre-release buzz into a box office success with an excessive marketing and advertising push with Charlie's Angels. The advertising department literally bought that movie's success, and studios have been using that move as a go-to play ever since.

 

Marvel is in a slightly different boat. They know they have "sufficient curiosity" in the bag without spending a dime on advertising simply because of the strength of their brand and the current love the public has for the MCU in general. What a big advertising/hype push does for them is drown out all competition so they get all the attention leading up to the movie's release, maximizing first weekend box office potential. They don't need the hype to generate excitement; they need it to turn a $600B return into an $800B return (which has less to do with marketplace excitement and everything to do with marketplace saturation).

[zslane]

double post

[drunkonduty]

I think I ran out of "likes" for the day in just the last 2 pages. This makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

[Bazza]

On 6 February 2018 at 8:24 PM, Bazza said:

Chadwick Boseman and Ryan Coogler on How ‘Black Panther’ Makes History

http://variety.com/2018/film/features/black-panther-chadwick-boseman-ryan-coogler-interview-1202686402/amp/

 

Liberally quoting from the above article as response to some of the recent posts to this thread over the last few pages on WHY Black Panther is making history, or have the vibe that it is making history. And putting it into historical context. Quoting from the article as letting the people involved, and those invested in it speak for themselves rather than me speak. 

Note: some of the paragraphs are out of order from the article, I'm chopping and changing to keep the theme. 
 

Quote

For decades, actors, directors, producers and fans have wondered why Hollywood was so slow to bring black superheroes to the big screen. It’s not that there weren’t attempts along the way. In the ’90s, Warner Bros. had originally tapped Marlon Wayans to portray Robin in a “Batman” movie, before Chris O’Donnell landed the sidekick role. Wesley Snipes starred in the vampire superhero franchise “Blade,” which spawned two sequels. In 2004, Halle Berry headlined “Catwoman,” which was ridiculed by critics and tanked at the box office. And 12 years later, Will Smith, the co-star of the juggernaut “Men in Black,” popped up in “Suicide Squad” as the under-seen assassin Deadshot.

 

“Black Panther,” directed by Ryan Coogler, is a movie that doubles as a movement, or at least a moment that feels groundbreaking in the same way that last year’s runaway hit “Wonder Woman” inspired millions of women. “Panther” marks the first time that a major studio has greenlit a black superhero movie with an African-American director and a primarily black cast, including Forest Whitaker, Angela Bassett, Michael B. Jordan, Lupita Nyong’o, Danai Gurira and Letitia Wright as Shuri, the princess of the fictional African country Wakanda.

 

Although Marvel films have a uniformly cookie-cutter vibe, Coogler persuaded executives to let him bring some familiar faces, including “Fruitvale Station” director of photography Rachel Morrison, “Creed” production designer Hannah Beachler and his longtime editor Michael Shawver. That’s led some reviewers to note that “Black Panther” has a more elevated vibe. “I feel like it’s definitely a Ryan Coogler film,” Boseman says. “There are certain choices that are made that are distinctly his stamp on it.”

 

When asked if a white director could have made “Black Panther,” Boseman hesitates. “Well, is it possible for them to make it? It could be, yes. Would they have his perspective? Probably not. It wouldn’t be nuanced in the same way because they wouldn’t have the same conflict. They don’t have the African-American conflict that exists: Whether you’re conscious of it or not, you have an ancestry that is very hard to trace.”

 

Quote

While domestic ticket sales plummeted last year, the number of frequent African-American moviegoers nearly doubled to 5.6 million in 2016, according to a survey by the Motion Picture Assn. of America.

 

Quote

Some are paying attention. “Representation matters,” says Alan Horn, chairman of Walt Disney Studios, which owns Marvel. “It’s a powerful and important thing for people to know they are seen and to see themselves reflected in our films and the stories we tell.” Horn believes that “Black Panther” is part of a wave of change. 

 

Despite these high-profile titles [Jordan Peele’s “Get Out”, Ava DuVernay’s “A Wrinkle in Time,”], the idea that Hollywood is at a tipping point is maybe naive.

“To think that way disregards history,” says the Oscar-nominated DuVernay, who is friends with Coogler and passed on directing “Black Panther” before him. “If we’re talking about different films by black filmmakers coming out in a cluster, that’s happened again and again in the last 30 years.” She mentions such directors as Spike Lee, John Singleton, Troy Beyer and Kasi Lemmons. “I think the question for us is how to sustain that and make it a fact, not a trend.”

 

“I think progress comes in ebbs and flows,” Coogler says. “I hope things continue to open up. As more content gets made, more opportunities like ours can come about for folks. But you’ve got to put your foot on the gas when it comes to that or things can go back to where they were.”

 

“For people of color, a superhero — that’s something that we would hope for,” said actor Courtney B. Vance as he entered the theater. “For it to be here, it’s a testament that we can open a movie. It’s something that maybe encourages us. If we can do it here, we can do it elsewhere.”

 

Quote

He made a pilgrimage to Africa before he began shooting “Black Panther,” the first time he visited the continent. “I have to go if I’m making this movie,” Coogler says. “I’m not qualified just because I look like this.”

Playing Black Panther meant Boseman had to enter a boot camp to understand the character physically and emotionally. He worked with a dialect coach to perfect a South African accent, and he took a DNA test to learn about his own origins. “One of the key factors was me getting a sense of my background,” he says. 

 

[Lord Liaden]

Chadwick Boseman's "South African" accent (probably from an amalgam of Bantu languages) is so consistent and natural-sounding, I actually find it rather jarring to hear him using his native South Carolinan speech. Much the same as when Tom Holland shifts from Queens-speak to his normal South Londoner.

[Bazza]

What surprises me is that Boseman took a DNA test. 

[Pattern Ghost]

14 minutes ago, Bazza said:

What surprises me is that Boseman took a DNA test. 

 

Me too. Those things seem scammy. (And to head it off: No, I believe DNA tests in general. What I don't believe is the companies bombarding me with advertisements to find out where my ancestors came from.)

[Old Man]

I too am not super enthusiastic about sending my DNA to some corporation for illegal cloning determining my "ancestry" or "racial makeup".

 

Then again I came straight from the primordial soup, so I may not have as many questions about my lineage as some.

[Lord Liaden]

I'm pretty sure at this point in his career, Boseman can afford a reputable authority, and has access to people who could steer him to one.

 

But this is the way many actors work. They research whatever background information they think will better connect them mentally and emotionally to the role they're playing. They believe that helps them convey the character with more authenticity and conviction.

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

Then again I came straight from the primordial soup, so I may not have as many questions about my lineage as some.

 

I was wondering what that was in your beard.

[Pattern Ghost]

27 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

I'm pretty sure at this point in his career, Boseman can afford a reputable authority, and has access to people who could steer him to one.

 

The issue is whether the testing even works, and how it works. I think you also underestimate how gullible actors can be. Here's article about the tests from NPR.

[Bazza]

 

[Lord Liaden]

7 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

The issue is whether the testing even works, and how it works. I think you also underestimate how gullible actors can be. Here's article about the tests from NPR.

 

 

Believe me, I don't underestimate how gullible actors can be. I am one, and I work with lots of others.

 

Boseman just wanted something to help him get in the right frame of mind.

[Lord Liaden]

4 minutes ago, Bazza said:

 

 

If you're adapting a medium that's as heavily visual as comic books, it makes sense to borrow some of its most iconic images.

[Starlord]

My mother does a ton of genealogy through Ancestry.com so I've had my DNA traced.

[Starlord]

1 minute ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

If you're adapting a medium that's as heavily visual as comic books, it makes sense to borrow some of its most iconic images.

 

...and any comic book can also seemlessly double as a movie storyboard.

[RDU Neil]

14 hours ago, Matt the Bruins said:

 

Allow me to refer you to the following from this very thread:

 

There are actually quite a lot of people who try to marginalize the importance of any entertainment (or educational material, or legislation) that's aimed at a demographic or subculture that they themselves don't belong to, apparently taking personal umbrage at praise being given to something that wasn't created with them in mind as the principal beneficiary. And in the majority of my experience, the people having that reaction and acting as if disagreement with their assessment is oppression are straight WASP men. Look at posts in this thread, so invested in arguing people out of their "wrong" high opinions of the quality and impact of cultural phenomena centered on women or people of color and characterizing people who are enthusiastic about such things as ignorant and deluded rather than simply stating that the media in question didn't have that profound impact or effect on them.

 

I really tried to like this, but I'm not allowed. Apparently there is not enough like in the world to go around. Here's me just trying to eke out a little more.

[Pattern Ghost]

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Believe me, I don't underestimate how gullible actors can be. I am one, and I work with lots of others.

 

Whew! Thank goodness. I thought you were having too much faith in humanity again.

[Pattern Ghost]

3 hours ago, Bazza said:

 

 

Who are the guys over Thanos' head? I'm guessing henchfolk, but I can't identify them.

[RDU Neil]

14 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

Who are the guys over Thanos' head? I'm guessing henchfolk, but I can't identify them.

 

Aren't they members of his team of super-henchmen... the Black Order?  Corvus Glaive, Ebony Maw... etc.?

[Pattern Ghost]

4 minutes ago, RDU Neil said:

 

Aren't they members of his team of super-henchmen... the Black Order?  Corvus Glaive, Ebony Maw... etc.?

 

I've never heard of them, thanks. I'll Google Black Order.

[RDU Neil]

1 minute ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

I've never heard of them, thanks. I'll Google Black Order.

 

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Order_(Earth-616)

[Matt the Bruins]

Aw, I'm sorry to see they aren't going to have the big windvane antlers on Proxima Midnight's headgear. Hela proved that such things can be done well and look awesome now.