Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND

[Christopher R Taylor]

Whether the Mandarin was a racist caricature or not (and whether that was true through his whole run of comic stories through the years) is really irrelevant: you don't have to make him that way in the movies.  I think they just wanted to avoid having anything non-technological in the story, even alien tech.

 

And I'm really confident that Iron Man 3 was a script they already had around and adapted to be Iron Man.

[Lord Liaden]

Don't forget how big the Chinese film market is nowadays. Studios would be justifiably wary of including elements in their movies that could offend that audience.

[zslane]

For the first two acts of IM3 the Mandarin was being captivatingly depicted as a Middle-eastern terrorist warlord, and they could have stuck with that and not turned it into a joke. That would have avoided the whole "racist asian" problem of the original comic book character as well. But instead Shane Black decided, with Marvel's approval, to subvert audience expectations in a bid to be Oh So Clever. Clearly it worked on some, but not on me. I was severely disappointed with the whole Trevor reveal and who the Mandarin actually turned out to be in the end.

 

I also dislike the entire concept behind Extremis, but that's a whole other bugaboo I won't bother to get into.

[Twilight]

32 minutes ago, zslane said:

For the first two acts of IM3 the Mandarin was being captivatingly depicted as a Middle-eastern terrorist warlord, and they could have stuck with that and not turned it into a joke. That would have avoided the whole "racist asian" problem of the original comic book character as well. But instead Shane Black decided, with Marvel's approval, to subvert audience expectations in a bid to be Oh So Clever. Clearly it worked on some, but not on me. I was severely disappointed with the whole Trevor reveal and who the Mandarin actually turned out to be in the end.

 

I also dislike the entire concept behind Extremis, but that's a whole other bugaboo I won't bother to get into.

That reveal didn't do much for me either, fortunately I found the rest of the movie enjoyable enough to move past that.  I had hoped that Trevor being just an actor was a ploy and he really was the Mandarin after all, the idea being that he'd used Killian to take the heat off his organization, but I'm quite happy with what the one shot implied as well.

[Greywind]

18 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

My problem with Iron Man 3 isn't the diversion from the comics (although the Mandarin thing sucked, its like turning the Joker into a harmless clown who makes balloon animals.  Really??).  Its that it was about Tony Stark NOT being Iron Man, and then a ridiculous horde of remote control Iron Man suits that would cost more than the entire world's GDP, suits which are alternately tough enough to fight the Hulk or shatter when hit like a cartoon.  And nervous breakdown Tony was not fun to watch.

 

I don't recall Tony ever saying how much any given suit cost. And they were his to do with as he chose. They did not belong to Stark Industries. They belonged to Tony Stark. Which he pointed out in Iron Man 2. " Well, you can forget it. I am Iron Man. The suit and I are one. To turn over the Iron Man suit would be to turn over myself, which is tantamount to indentured servitude or prostitution, depending on what state you're in. You can't have it."

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

I don't recall Tony ever saying how much any given suit cost.

 

While this is one of those comic book things so cost is ignored, they would have been tens of millions each, minimum.  And he had how many???  Obviously he owned them, but that has nothing to do with the absurdity of him somehow excavating a 100 foot deep, 20 yard wide pit in his lab without anyone seeming to even be aware of it, and lining it with zillions of suits.  I mean the way they performed, apparently most were made of aluminum foil and electrical tape but still.  Just ridiculous.

 

And despite being attacked there, and being a major target, and being a weapons manufacturer, and being a very public figure, Tony doesn't bother putting in the slightest amount of air defenses??

[zslane]

You seem to be forgetting that "comic book logic" is an oxymoron. "Action movie logic" even more so.

[Lord Liaden]

I agree to some extent. Comic books do have their own logic, based on the conventions of how their worlds are established to function. It's when sloppy writing breaks those conventions that logic appears to go out the window. Unfortunately too many writers, and readers, use the fact that they're comic books as its own excuse for sloppiness.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah its a tricky tightrope to walk.  Within context and in a genre, you're allowed some freedom to do things that make no sense and even have a few coincidences, but if you do it too often or go too far, you lose your audience.  And your audience varies.  My willingness to shrug at nonsense and contrivance is a lot smaller than most people.

[zslane]

12 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

My willingness to shrug at nonsense and contrivance is a lot smaller than most people.

 

Mine as well. I chalk it up to a combination of my age and the fact that sheer spectacle doesn't suppress my internal BS meter as easily as it does most people's.

[Greywind]

All the IM info was stored on Tony's private servers because he wanted to keep it private. He sent it to the fabricators to be fabricated. The information did not leave his house and the armor did not show up delivered in a crate.

 

As for air defenses, ground defenses, etc., pretty sure little things like the local, state and federal governments would frown upon an armed installation on the coast that wasn't under any of the direct authority.

[Old Man]

One wonders if repulsors and micromissiles would fall under the purview of the BATF, and whether Stark has the necessary paperwork.  Or, it might be the sort of thing that Agent Coulson could have pulled strings for.

 

I note that Stark's maiden flight took place over downtown Los Angeles, which might ordinarily attract the attention of the FAA. 

[Doc Shadow]

I don't believe there are any regulations for personal flying suits. 

[Pattern Ghost]

22 minutes ago, Old Man said:

One wonders if repulsors and micromissiles would fall under the purview of the BATF, and whether Stark has the necessary paperwork.  Or, it might be the sort of thing that Agent Coulson could have pulled strings for.

 

He probably has a manufacturer's license since he's a military contractor. I believe they have varying grades of that.

[zslane]

Conforming to real world laws and federal regulations is rarely something superheroes are forced to do, as it is deemed a needless complication to the more important job of moving the plot along. For instance, we didn't hear anything about the government of Monaco formally objecting to Tony bringing a military-grade, super-tech weapons system into their country for the 2010 Grand Prix. Minor things like regulations, laws and international treaties are pretty much disregarded entirely unless they are made central to the plot, as with the Sokovia Accords.

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, Doc Shadow said:

I don't believe there are any regulations for personal flying suits. 

 

The FAA does not care what the flying machine is shaped like.

[zslane]

One must presume that the FAA has amended their General Operating and Flight Rules to accommodate superheroes who can fly with a level of precision and control equivalent to, or better than, helicopters. Of course, the question of how the FAA tests and verifies/certifies the flying skill of any given superhero must remain an unanswered one since comic book writers will never even think about this.

[Greywind]

You're assuming people capable of flight under their own power falls under the purview of the FAA. More than likely they automatically fall under the purview of SHIELD.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

All the IM info was stored on Tony's private servers because he wanted to keep it private. He sent it to the fabricators to be fabricated. The information did not leave his house and the armor did not show up delivered in a crate.

 

...I wasn't referring to the suits, other than their cost.  He has all the facilities in his lab (somehow) to make anything he wants, he's made multiple suits right there.

 

Quote

As for air defenses, ground defenses, etc., pretty sure little things like the local, state and federal governments would frown upon an armed installation on the coast that wasn't under any of the direct authority.

I meant: how did he get a chasm dug under his lab the size of the Tower of Pisa without anyone noticing?

 

And seriously?  You can buy all the stuff that takes place in these movies but Tony setting up aerial defenses on his own is beyond the pale?  Really?

[Greywind]

20 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

I meant: how did he get a chasm dug under his lab the size of the Tower of Pisa without anyone noticing?

 

He talked to Bruce Wayne who pointed him at the crew that worked on the Batcave.

[zslane]

12 minutes ago, Greywind said:

You're assuming people capable of flight under their own power falls under the purview of the FAA. More than likely they automatically fall under the purview of SHIELD.

 

SHIELD strikes me as more like Homeland Security than the FAA in terms of the nature of its mission statement and scope of operations and responsibilities. I really don't see SHIELD as being in the business of formulating, implementing, and enforcing civil regulations of any kind (and handling all the bureaucracy that goes with that). But I definitely think they would be consulted if and when the FAA was tasked by congress to expand the existing corpus of civil aviation regulations to account for superheroes.

[Christopher R Taylor]

 

Quote

He talked to Bruce Wayne who pointed him at the crew that worked on the Batcave.

 

Which was just... a cave

but even if work was done, it was out in the country, away from his house, without requiring any major excavation or removal of the home.  I mean... this is the comic book world so daffy stuff just happens because its cool and it is what the writer wants, but there were just too many moments to shrug at in this movie.  Which doesn't mean people have to dislike it, I just am baffled so many do.

[Greywind]

Was it "just a cave"? The closest it came to that was in the 60's show and the Burton/Schumacher films. Nolan's batcave and definitely the current Affleck on is a lot more than "just a cave".

[Christopher R Taylor]

Nolan's was pretty much a cave with a few things wheeled into it, but yeah the Affleck one is definitely more jazzed up.  Its the comic book version of wealth: if you are rich you can just buy anything without regard to logic or expense, like wealth is a toggle.  You get to this level and everything is just free.  Its like the comic book version of smart: creates gadgets.

[Lord Liaden]

Right from his first movie, Tony Stark had robots and a sophisticated AI to do any construction work on his property. And once he built his mini arc reactor, he had enough power to laser and repulsor whatever space he needed out of the bedrock.

 

I don't think Tony would have even considered air defenses at his home before the Mandarin, because before the Mandarin no one would have reason to attack him with missiles. You have a billionaire with a head full of super-weapon secrets, you don't blow him up. You go in soft and quiet, try to kidnap him for ransom and/or interrogation, or hack and download his databases. Stark had Jarvis and his armor to protect him from that kind of attack.

 

As to FAA regulations and the like, that's why billionaires retain lawyers.