Lawnmower Boy Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 So I guess another kid got slaughtered in Wisconsin over the weekend? It's getting hard to keep track. He deserved it because he committed a crime once, and he assaulted the police officer (who has hardly ever killed anyone for no good reason before) once the police officer broke into his apartment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I assume he also reached for his waistband and resisted arrest. :| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Article I scanned said he attacked and injured the cop who shot him, and that he was on a three year parole for armed robbery. It also says the cop who did the shooting killed someone in a "suicide by cop" incident eight years ago. Seems to early to have any real info on the specifics of the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I had a sheriff's deputy friend of mine let me try to remove his gun from his retention holster, and there was really only one way to do it and that way was nearly impossible to do from most positions, prone including. If they attempt to grab/take you sidearm -- even if accomplishing the task is difficult -- they have signalled an intent that defines them as an imminent threat. And, that removing the gun is difficult does not mean it is impossible. Its rare, but officers with retention holsters have been disarmed and killed while on duty. I don't accept "I tried it once and it was hard" is the basis of a self-sustaining argument when evaluating a use of force incident. Which is not to say that the investigators should not be thorough and ask some very direct and hard questions of the officer. A life was taken, after all. But, personally, I'm tired of debates that boil down to people on both sides rendering summary Internet judgements without access to, and a detailed examination of, all the facts and statements. We appoint jurors and officials to do that for us so we can get on with our days. At some point we all became a bunch of online blowhards. Our opinions won't have any impact on the outcome of the case -- so who cares what we think? gewing and pinecone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Our opinions won't have any impact on the outcome of the case -- so who cares what we think? Vondy, you clearly don't hold to that view so what inspires it now? Surely anyone could look back on your posts and find you commenting on subject to which your view will have no impact. Thus, that reason is not likely to be a driving rule to guide your decisions on whether or not to comment here. No, we comment to share and belong. We comment because it is human nature to be want to be a member of a group, and part and parcle with that is reflection and commentary on issues relevant to that group. Moreover, I reject your claim that it will have no impact. By airing our griefs we encourage others to do the same by proxy. And it is that discussion that produces change. La Rose. Ragitsu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 If they attempt to grab/take you sidearm -- even if accomplishing the task is difficult -- they have signalled an intent that defines them as an imminent threat. And, that removing the gun is difficult does not mean it is impossible. Its rare, but officers with retention holsters have been disarmed and killed while on duty. I don't accept "I tried it once and it was hard" is the basis of a self-sustaining argument when evaluating a use of force incident. Since he was responding to comments I made -- and having had plenty of use of force training, and having employed it on the job -- I'm going to comment. Retention holsters are one factor. While it's possible that the officers did everything right leading up to the victim's death, it's much more likely that one or more of them did something wrong. The first thing that likely went wrong was the initial contact. We have no basis to judge how that went, as the video doesn't record it, and eyewitnesses are less than reliable. No mention was made of it in the article to my recollection. But it's a very common point of failure. The second thing is the complete lack of coordination or any kind of skill shown in restraining the guy, even though they had the advantage of size and numbers. If he had been taken down cleanly and restrained, he wouldn't have had a hand free for a gun grab. That's not necessarily criminal in itself, but it's something that needs to be looked into even if just from a training perspective. The LAPD states that the subject had an officer's gun. If he got the gun after getting into an altercation, and after a sloppy take down attempt, then something went wrong, retention holsters notwithstanding. (And as I said earlier, the gun taken could have been a back up weapon or in an officer's hand or something similar.) If the justification for the shooting is that the subject got a gun, then there needs to be a through explanation made. I'm sure such an explanation will be made to someone at some point, but it might be a good idea to make it public. We appoint jurors and officials to do that for us so we can get on with our days. At some point we all became a bunch of online blowhards. I hope I've avoided this. Having had some experience with the area, I've been trying to keep my comments objective and informative. Our opinions won't have any impact on the outcome of the case -- so who cares what we think? You may not have noticed this, but sometimes people express their opinions on discussion boards. Ragitsu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/city-hall/2015/03/8563947/edits-wikipedia-pages-bell-garner-diallo-traced-1-police-plaza Computers operating on the New York Police Department’s computer network at its 1 Police Plaza headquarters have been used to alter Wikipedia pages containing details of alleged police brutality, a review by Capital has revealed. Lucius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/city-hall/2015/03/8563947/edits-wikipedia-pages-bell-garner-diallo-traced-1-police-plaza It would appear the motto has also been edited "To serve our own interests and protect our own asses" Pattern Ghost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Wisconsin police officer kills suspect on first day back from leave after previous shooting Anyone want to speculate on what the "weapon" was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Obviously the most dangerous weapon of all : a lack of respect for the officer's 'authoritah'. La Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Rolled up magazine. You saw what Jason Bourne could do with that thing. Maybe a paper clip like Bullseye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Probationary officer is wanted for murder in Pomona CA after shooting a man in the street. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 From today's Cracked... 6 Things I Did as a Cop in a Shockingly Corrupt Small Town Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Heh. Find a book by Steve Sellers titled "Terror on Highway 59". That went on while I was in Texas (in Austin, and thankfully I never went towards San Jacinto County). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Obviously the most dangerous weapon of all : a lack of respect for the officer's 'authoritah'. La Rose. Only obvious if that is your assumption. I'm betting a club of some kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted March 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 http://www.buzzfeed.com/salvadorhernandez/university-of-virginia-martese-johnson-arrest#.suWbKPbvn Man, what a monumental cockup by the local law enforcement personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 http://www.buzzfeed.com/salvadorhernandez/university-of-virginia-martese-johnson-arrest#.suWbKPbvn Man, what a monumental cockup by the local law enforcement personnel. What's monumental about it? That article wanders around too much touching on side issues and not the facts of the case. All I get is the guy was stuffed and cuffed on a disorderly charge and banged his head, getting a scalp laceration. What other facts of the case are there that makes this especially bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted March 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 What's monumental about it? That article wanders around too much touching on side issues and not the facts of the case. All I get is the guy was stuffed and cuffed on a disorderly charge and banged his head, getting a scalp laceration. What other facts of the case are there that makes this especially bad? An overreaction to a college student just shy of the legal drinking age (which I believe is a touch high, given that you can vote, own firearms, and join the military at eighteen years of age) that didn't resist with force, ending with a nasty gash, basically. Just because there are other gross abuses of authority we've talked about, doesn't mean that comparatively minor offenses aren't also worthy of disgust. gewing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
薔薇語 Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 The kid is twenty and committed no crime. He was even only charged with non violent resistance. So even the police, who are notorious for trumpted up charges, know they can't make a case the kid even possed the least of threats. Yet they managed to bust him up and make him require ten stitches. When being out at night is just cause to crack someones head, eapecially a college honor roll kid, we have a problem. La Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 An overreaction to a college student just shy of the legal drinking age (which I believe is a touch high, given that you can own vote, own firearms, and join the military at eighteen years of age) that didn't resist with force, ending with a nasty gash, basically. Just because there are other gross abuses of authority we've talked about, doesn't mean that comparatively minor offenses aren't also worthy of disgust. I think the incident is important in that it can help establish a pattern of bad behavior on the part of the agency involved. However, there isn't enough meat to that article to really say one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 The kid is twenty and committed no crime. He was even only charged with non violent resistance. So even the police, who are notorious for trumpted up charges, know they can't make a case the kid even possed the least of threats. Yet they managed to bust him up and make him require ten stitches. When being out at night is just cause to crack someones head, eapecially a college honor roll kid, we have a problem. La Rose. He was charged with: "Court records show Johnson was arrested on two misdemeanor charges of obstructing justice without force, and public swearing and intoxication." Now, the way the article reads, those two charges were probably both part of the arrest itself, since it quotes him as swearing at the officers during the arrest. The article doesn't really say what the reason was for the officers approaching him in the first place*. IOW, it's an incomplete article and any comments on it have to be speculative in nature. *Edit: It does say in a header font that the report said agents approached him when he wasn't allowed into a bar. Which says nothing really. But to be fair to the press, it seems to be the police that aren't saying anything. And judging by that, it does seem to be a case of hassling someone then coming up with some charges later -- which happens, and far too often in some areas. As for the terrible injuries he sustained: Boo-hoo. He got a cut on the scalp, and it didn't turn out to be life-threatening (at least, not yet, you know how head injuries can go south). Scalp cuts bleed profusely. The real question -- which isn't answered anywhere in the article linked that I can see -- is why he was approached in the first place, and how that contact lead to an arrest requiring putting him on the ground to cuff him. While I'm perfectly willing to believe that the entire incident was an overstepping of authority, the article doesn't really support that conclusion, and dips quickly into speculation itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoneDaddy Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Why the hell does the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control have the power to forcibly arrest people who aren't selling or distributing alcohol? Ragitsu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Guess they couldn't arrest him on the omnipresent "resisting arrest" excuse . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 "Public swearing". Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 If they start enforcing that one around here, I'm doomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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