[Police brutality] American injustice, yet again.

[gewing 472]

After an experience like that, she probably needs a shrink, but probably isn't going to go to one, either.  She had to refute her entire identity or they wouldn't believe she was sane.  Un-spanking-believable.  They should accept any demand for damages she offers.  Any at all.  The jury award will be worse.

I tend to agree.  FUBAR

[gewing 472]

That made me ill. Not only is the act morally reprehensible and illegal, but they practically flouted to the camera.

 

the other officers seem casual about it..   wow.   Hmm, prison for civil rights violations for all three?

 

wow, watching more, all three officers had turned off their body microphones???   

 

I think "the young turks" are jerks, but even a jerk can be right.  

[Cygnia 13,897]

Living here, yeah, Cleveland's general attitude is [bLEEP]ed up in regards to race, unfortunately.

[Old Man 11,253]

That's one thing I never will understand about you humans.

[Enforcer84 3,561]

That's one thing I never will understand about you humans.

We learned it from watching you, alright?!

[Old Man 11,253]

Impossible. I don't discriminate between humans based on appearance. Only on flavor.

[Enforcer84 3,561]

We extrapolated.

[wcw43921 2,117]

Cops do right, bystanders do wrong

[Pattern Ghost 2,584]

Here's the video, the one linked in the article was taken down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tJySH_lzAY

[Pattern Ghost 2,584]

Stupid and corrupt cops. Actually that seems redundant. I should just say cops. 

 

La Rose. 

 

No, you shouldn't. I'm a former cop. Lapsedgamer was a cop. Not all cops are stupid and corrupt.

[Ragitsu 1,611]

Here's the video, the one linked in the article was taken down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tJySH_lzAY

 

Why was it taken down?

 

No, you shouldn't. I'm a former cop. Lapsedgamer was a cop. Not all cops are stupid and corrupt.

 

You're one of the "good ones" (if we take your word for it).

 

.

 

Well, you're definitely not stupid.

[assault 1,093]

Sad but true: in Australia, the most successful detectives have been the corrupt ones, since they had the best networks of contacts and informers.

 

Uniformed cops too, no doubt.

[Pattern Ghost 2,584]

Why was it taken down?

 

 

You're one of the "good ones" (if we take your word for it).

 

.

 

Well, you're definitely not stupid.

 

Dunno, the vid in the article said it was removed b/c of a copyright claim by someone or other.

[assault 1,093]

Addendum to my previous post: but also the least scrupulous in the methods they used to gain convictions...

[Enforcer84 3,561]

 

Stupid and corrupt cops. Actually that seems redundant. I should just say cops. 

 

La Rose. 

You mean like all men are (potential) rapists, and all gamers are losers who live in their parents' basements? 

 

If you're going to paint a group with one broad brush in one thread, please don't get all bristly when your group gets thusly painted in another; it's unseemly. Unless, I suppose, you're raging against Doombots - let's face it there's precious little variation in their behavior.

 

I've met a fair number of policemen and women who have never been anything but decent, pleasant human beings. I've met a few who've been jerks; some sanctimonious, some not. Only violent people I've encountered were of the non uniform but rather inebriated variety. Perhaps  I've been pretty lucky. 

[Iuz the Evil 864]

I just spent the last three days in training with Law Enforcement on Crisis Intervention. Very impressive material, good folks who were at least as unhappy (probably more so) than the folks in this thread.

[薔薇語 730]

You mean like all men are (potential) rapists, and all gamers are losers who live in their parents' basements? 

 

If you're going to paint a group with one broad brush in one thread, please don't get all bristly when your group gets thusly painted in another; it's unseemly. Unless, I suppose, you're raging against Doombots - let's face it there's precious little variation in their behavior.

 

I've met a fair number of policemen and women who have never been anything but decent, pleasant human beings. I've met a few who've been jerks; some sanctimonious, some not. Only violent people I've encountered were of the non uniform but rather inebriated variety. Perhaps  I've been pretty lucky. 

There is a great distinction between lampooning a group based on choice and a group based on birth. Men don't choose to be men. Cops choose to be cops. Let's not forget that. 

 

Second, given the countless stories of how often cops are corrupt and even  the not-corrupt cops defend those cops, we get a clear image of a system that is more rotten than not. This isn't a minority inside a vast group. Take this case in particular: a cop went all cowboy in executing already dead individuals after he and his colleagues already went Bonnie and Clyde on them. And the whole of them are choosing to not cooperate with the attorney and there doesn't seem to be push back by their police superiors to compel them; quite the opposite, indeed. That is a wide scale and systemic problem. That is not a "few bad apples". And, believe it or not, E84, the vast majority of us guys don't go around raping people - that is an extremely small percentage of people. A small percentage of people who only belong to that group as an accident of birth. 

 

So, please excuse me if I continue to default to the idea that cops are not to be trusted. The collective whole has done far too much bad to justify such trust anymore. 

 

La Rose. 

[薔薇語 730]

No, you shouldn't. I'm a former cop. Lapsedgamer was a cop. Not all cops are stupid and corrupt.

 

 

No, not all cops. Just a significant number. And didn't you admit to watching a German cop steal money from someone by personally collecting a fine he chose to place? As I recall you didn't report him. That isn't acceptable behavior, in my not so humble opinion. So, I get that you don't think much of the event. And probably most cops don't. But that is EXACTLY the problem. Small scale lapses only encourage larger problems. 

 

La Rose. 

[Enforcer84 3,561]

There is a great distinction between lampooning a group based on choice and a group based on birth. Men don't choose to be men. Cops choose to be cops. Let's not forget that. 

 

Second, given the countless stories of how often cops are corrupt and even  the not-corrupt cops defend those cops, we get a clear image of a system that is more rotten than not. This isn't a minority inside a vast group. Take this case in particular: a cop went all cowboy in executing already dead individuals after he and his colleagues already went Bonnie and Clyde on them. And the whole of them are choosing to not cooperate with the attorney and there doesn't seem to be push back by their police superiors to compel them; quite the opposite, indeed. That is a wide scale and systemic problem. That is not a "few bad apples". And, believe it or not, E84, the vast majority of us guys don't go around raping people - that is an extremely small percentage of people. A small percentage of people who only belong to that group as an accident of birth. 

 

So, please excuse me if I continue to default to the idea that cops are not to be trusted. The collective whole has done far too much bad to justify such trust anymore. 

 

La Rose. 

Man, you have to split a lot of hairs to keep your prejudices looking clean. I believe you that most guys don't go raping people. I also believe the vast majority of cops aren't suspect. Clearly you disagree there but I can give you just as many acts of civilian on civilian brutality. Man on woman, Man on child, woman on child, less women on men if only because it's not reported as often - or taken seriously. Yeah men don't choose to be men (although that's not entirely true but hey we'll leave transgenders out of this discussion, but they do choose their violence - much like the police you mistrust. So getting all defensive at women who throw the same stereotypes in your face about what other men do is EXACTLY how the cops (or former cops who probably haven't murdered anyone) on the boards feel when you spew your all encompassing hate and vitriol. 

 

All that said, feel free to judge groups as a gelatin mold whole, it's your opinion. But please excuse me if I continue the default that your arguments hold less weight because of it. 

 

I've known no German cops. The only one's I've encountered are the ones who pulled me over. The few I've had to call to my building when I was in a position of authority to do so, and the guy who was my older brother's friend in high school. 

 

(and our Board Members who are/were police officers, but never met them) 

 

And again, even if I had a personal experience with a dirty cop I've had personal experiences with three rape victims (2 female, 1 male) I've had personal experiences with numerous thieves (one man who held me at gun point when I was working at Taco Bell. Some jackasses who broke into my storage unit (I actually suspect the people who ran the place) Two Bank Robbers, An abusive father, an alcoholic uncle. Seven shoplifters (one being myself) and a guy who lied about being in the military.

 

Cops have made up an incredibly small slice of the humanity I've had direct contact with. Maybe you have had more - maybe you haven't. 

 

My major beefs are with banks (worked for one for dozen years) storage companies ( ) environmental bugbears (work for an asbestos/Environmental Engineering firm) School Bureaucrats (grew up in a family of teachers) and of course, Limp Bizcuit fans.  

[Pattern Ghost 2,584]

No, not all cops. Just a significant number. And didn't you admit to watching a German cop steal money from someone by personally collecting a fine he chose to place? As I recall you didn't report him. That isn't acceptable behavior, in my not so humble opinion. So, I get that you don't think much of the event. And probably most cops don't. But that is EXACTLY the problem. Small scale lapses only encourage larger problems. 

 

La Rose. 

 

I said I didn't say anything to him about it. (If you recall, he was a bit of a monster guy.) It was mentioned to my superiors, but thanks for playing.

 

I know you don't like to admit when you're wrong, but I think you really need to learn how to do that. You're clever. You're not that clever. Nobody is always right.

 

YOU ARE WRONG. Period. End of story.

 

Put your broad brush away. Complain about specific incidents, individuals and even departments. Quit acting like an angry, ignorant child.

[Pattern Ghost 2,584]

So, please excuse me if I continue to default to the idea that cops are not to be trusted. The collective whole has done far too much bad to justify such trust anymore. 

 

La Rose. 

 

So, you're saying the plural of anecdote is data. Pretty sound reasoning, there.

[薔薇語 730]

I said I didn't say anything to him about it. (If you recall, he was a bit of a monster guy.) It was mentioned to my superiors, but thanks for playing.

 

I know you don't like to admit when you're wrong, but I think you really need to learn how to do that. You're clever. You're not that clever. Nobody is always right.

 

YOU ARE WRONG. Period. End of story.

 

Put your broad brush away. Complain about specific incidents, individuals and even departments. Quit acting like an angry, ignorant child.

 

Oh, please, PG, you of all people know I am more than capable of admitting my mistakes and doing so in public since I have done so to you not too long ago in this thread. So don't give me that BS. You are better than that. 

 

I do complain about specific incidents. But those complaints are on a daily basis. The problem being that I never run out of material to complain about. Far too many incidents to count have gone down for this to be a 'few bad apples'. Far too many extreme cover ups for this to be 'a few bad apples'. 

 

As to you actually reporting your German counterpart - Good job. That is exactly what should have happened. But given your posts on the topic, can you see why I didn't know you actually reported him. But you did and I am sorry for assuming otherwise. My apologies. 

 

La Rose. 

[Ragitsu 1,611]

And again, even if I had a personal experience with a dirty cop I've had personal experiences with three rape victims (2 female, 1 male) I've had personal experiences with numerous thieves (one man who held me at gun point when I was working at Taco Bell. Some jackasses who broke into my storage unit (I actually suspect the people who ran the place) Two Bank Robbers, An abusive father, an alcoholic uncle. Seven shoplifters (one being myself) and a guy who lied about being in the military.

 

Just curious: were most of them in a clear position of societal authority and/or legally authorized to use deadly force like a police officer?

 

Because...that's what this thread is about: people that can harass, steal, cripple, or kill you, when it isn't reasonable, and stand a much better chance than most of getting off scot-free.

[Pattern Ghost 2,584]

 

The Rose, on 01 Apr 2015 - 7:53 PM, said:

    Oh, please, PG, you of all people know I am more than capable of admitting my mistakes and doing so in public since I have done so to you not too long ago in this thread. So don't give me that BS. You are better than that.

    La Rose.

*

 

I didn't say you never admit you're wrong, just that you don't seem to like to do so.

 

As far as the volume of complaints giving you the impression that most police are bad: that's what my second jab was about. It's simply not true. If most police were bad, we'd have far, far more incidents in the news.

 

Is there widespread, systematic corruption in certain areas? Sure. That's been the case pretty much forever, really. Are most police officers bad/corrupt? No.

 

Are there too many incidents? Sure. And I'm glad that one side effect of every cell phone being a video camera these days is that these incidents get more exposure.

 

 

*Eh, new board makes it hard to put in a quote after the fact, which I did since there was a post up between the two.

[薔薇語 730]

E84: "Man, you have to split a lot of hairs to keep your prejudices looking clean. I believe you that most guys don't go raping people. I also believe the vast majority of cops aren't suspect. Clearly you disagree there but I can give you just as many acts of civilian on civilian brutality"

Me: Again, apples to oranges. But feel free to list examples of jerks being jerks. I don't mind. But that isn't the point. The point is that the people we have put into position of authority seem to have a rampant disconnect from the very people they are meant to be protecting. Be it all the instances of harassment, racial discrimination (and other forms), the inclination towards violence, including deadly force, or of actually raping people and all the cover ups that go along with it. In my hometown alone there was a story of the prosecutor dilberately going after a guy and putting him in jail for 25 years with the help of the police because they needed someone to blame and didn't care who. And they KNEW he was innocent. In my hometown alone it was revealed recently that the police had been deliberately expanding on their budget using civil forfeiture for years and actually budget in accordance with the idea they will steal X million dollars a year from people. In my hometown alone we had to institute new regs on police because they were caught tazing old women to death. In my hometown alone we have had issues with cops stealing money from houses when they do crime scene investigations. I can remember when we got a new police chief and he had to rewrite and enforce driving rules because cops would constantly do 20 to 40 miles over the speed limit in their patrol cars even when NOT going to a crime scene. I had plenty of interactions with cops. And with the exception of one guy, they all seemed like overgrown bullies who were a single step away from snapping and had no regard for the laws. And my hometown is a fairly small and liberal college town. For there to be so many instances of police overstepping, corruptions, and generally bad behavior, is a sign that the culture of policing must be in part to blame. 

E84: "And again, even if I had a personal experience with a dirty cop I've had personal experiences with three rape victims (2 female, 1 male) I've had personal experiences with numerous thieves..."

 

Me: And I have had experiences with several rape victims, too. I am thankful that I don't know any rapists or thieves first hand, though. But that has no connection to whether or not police can be trusted. Again, Apples to oranges. 

 

But at least we can both agree that Limp Bizcuit fans are weird. 

La Rose.