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[Police brutality] American injustice, yet again.


Ragitsu

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And yet somehow we are suppose to believe them when they say "he reached into his waist band? And to me it looks more like the kid dropped to the ground before the cops even finished stopping their car. 

 

That video looks like it's censoring the actual shooting. I saw the uncensored footage, and it did look like his hand went for his waistband.

 

EDIT: The second video matches the one I saw. Just before he goes down, he reaches for his waistband.

 

IMO, they came in hard and fast, probably shouting at the kid to drop the gun before they got out of the car, the kid got confused by the noise and lights and sudden appearance of the vehicle, and reached for the gun to show them it's not real. The "shock and awe" tactic they used wasn't really called for (IMO) when the kid was just sitting there quietly, and I think it led to him getting confused and doing exactly the wrong thing to do when an amped up, amateurish cop shows up.

 

The problem here is that those officers weren't in control of their emotions. They got the call of a kid waving a gun around. Then they assumed that they were acting on good information, despite the fact that their training and past experiences should have shown them that eyewitnesses are unreliable at best. So, they went in with the intent of taking down some kid with a gun instead of the intent of finding out what the situation was. Even had they been right, it was foolish to make that approach with just one unit.

 

At the end of the day, the officers created the situation and shot a confused boy. However, I think criminal prosecution is highly unlikely. Shooting someone who is reaching for a gun isn't going to put any police officer in jail, regardless of their blunder of an approach to the situation. I sincerely hope that they are taken to the cleaners in civil court, to the extent that the city both screens and trains its officers better and that both their careers are permanently ended.

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I realize the caller told the 911 operator it might be a toy, but did the dispatcher tell e officers? Locally, aiui, the 911 operator passes the information to the dispatchers, who contact the officers.

 

This allows an extra step where information could be dropped. The radio traffic is probably recorded, has anyone heard it? Maybe it is my cheap tablet, but I could hardly understand the 911 call at all.

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I realize the caller told the 911 operator it might be a toy, but did the dispatcher tell e officers? Locally, aiui, the 911 operator passes the information to the dispatchers, who contact the officers.

 

This allows an extra step where information could be dropped. The radio traffic is probably recorded, has anyone heard it? Maybe it is my cheap tablet, but I could hardly understand the 911 call at all.

No, the dispatcher did not pass that information on.

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And statements like "cops shouldn't even draw their weapon until they know if someone else has a weapon" is still simply wrong.  Pointing that out is not defending these particular cops.

  

 

Bigbywolfe, who made that claim you just quoted? It sure as heck wasn't me. So please enlighten me. 

 

But since I know it is me that you are poorly quoting, allow me to actually quote me:

 

"They should have pulled up at a distance. Slowly walked up to the situation and confirmed if it was a real gun or not long before drawing their own. Had they, there would be one more young child in this world."

 

 

That isn't an edict in all situations as yours is. Mine was a reference to this case in particular. Please keep that in mind. These cops showed that they absolutely do not care about murdering children. We can see that in their reckless approach on a child (They know it is a child from 911 call). They show it in their Shoot First because 'black boys are scary' attitude when they didn't even give the boy a chance to surrender. We can see it in their absolute eagerness to flat out lie about a the situation in their reports. These cops did everything they could in order to set up a situation where they could kill that boy and had it not been for a lucky camera filming them, they would have gotten away scot free. Heck, they still might because people seem to think that they are somehow justified in murdering this boy. 

 

Once again, they should have approached the situation with due caution (for their sake, for the surrounding people's sake, and for the murder victim's sake). They didn't. They should have used distance as their friend to ascertain if the boy actually had a gun for everyone's sake. They should have NOT tried to scare the child by doing a drive-by on him with guns blazing - for everyone's sake. Had these cops showed even the slightest amount of common F'ing sense, we would have one more child in this world and two less murderers (assuming they haven't murdered before). 

 

They are filthy and horrible human beings. They are moderately extreme examples of the filth that seems to be in our police force and we need to fix that. 

 

La Rose. 

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Per the dispatcher actually.  I'm still looking for anything that claims they were there for 5 minutes before shooting.  I can't find that claim anywhere.  It was nearly 5 minutes after the shooting before the boy got medical attention, which is pathetic since the cops should have immediately administered first aid after securing the scene.

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Bigbywolfe, who made that claim you just quoted? It sure as heck wasn't me. So please enlighten me. 

 

But since I know it is me that you are poorly quoting, allow me to actually quote me:

 

"They should have pulled up at a distance. Slowly walked up to the situation and confirmed if it was a real gun or not long before drawing their own. Had they, there would be one more young child in this world."[/size]

 

And that statement is just as wrong in this case. I am not saying that they acted appropriately. I am saying that confirming if the gun is real before drawing their own would be stupid and irresponsible. I'm not saying they did right, in fact I have given specific examples of what they did wrong without falling back on name calling and rhetoric, but claiming, even if they had approached the situation correctly, slowly, and from a distance, that they shouldn't have drawn their weapons at all is simply wrong.

 

That isn't an edict in all situations as yours is. My was a reference to this case in particular. Please keep that in mind. These cops showed that they absolutely do not care about murdering children. We can see that in their reckless approach on a child (The know it is a child from 911 call). They show it in their Shoot First because 'black boys are scary' attitude when they didn't even give the boy a chance to surrender. We can see it in their absolute eagerness to flat out lie about a the situation in their reports. These cops did everything they could in order to set up a situation where they could kill that boy and had it not been for a lucky camera filming them, they would have gotten away scot free. Heck, they still might because people seem to think that they are somehow justified in murdering this boy. 

 

Once again, they should have approached the situation with due caution (for their sake, for the surrounding people's sake, and for the murder victim's sake). They didn't. They should have used distance as their friend to ascertain if the boy actually had a gun for everyone's sake. They should have NOT tried to scare the child by doing a drive-by on him with guns blazing - for everyone's sake. Had these cops showed even the slightest amount of common F'ing sense, we would have one more child in this world and two less murderers (assuming they haven't murdered before). 

 

They are filthy and horrible human beings. They are moderately extreme examples of the filth that seems to be in our police force and we need to fix that. 

 

La Rose.

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Buzzfeed Article
 
"In statements given shortly after the shooting, police officials said that Rice was with a group of boys when he was shot"
 
Filthy lie from filthy murders.

 

"Follmer said that Loehmann saw Rice take what looked like a pistol under a table in the park and put it into his waistband"

 

Filthy lie from filthy murders. 

 

"The police union also reported that Loehmann asked Rice to raise his hands three times"

Filthy lie from filthy murders.

 

"In a press conference on Nov. 24, Cleveland Police Chief Calvin Wiliams said that the video corroboraed the officer's initial description of the shooting but that they had not yet taken "official statements" from the officers who shot Rice"

Why not? Because they want to give the officers every possible chance to cover their own asses because they are filthy lying murders. 

 

La Rose. 

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2854617/Cops-shot-12-year-old-Tamir-Rice-dead-holding-BB-gun-did-not-aid-watched-lie-agony-died-just-hours-later.html

"Newly-released audio showed that the dispatcher did not pass on this concern to the responding officers"
"But in response to questions over her failure to mention the gun could be fake, he said dispatchers had to strike a balance between 'the need to get information to that zone car with the need to give every bit of information that we can'."
"He said that the call from the dispatcher was also under investigation."

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I think a better statement would've been: "They should've confirmed that it was a real gun, and made the decision to open fire based on that knowledge."

 

That statement would also be incorrect.

 

In this particular case, the gun is nearly indistinguishable from a real gun, even at very close distance. I posted a pic of the actual gun further back in the thread.

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I have long suspected that a significant (no idea how large) number of incidents attributed to Racism are really more a matter of class bias.

 

Though with the former Aryan Nations compound under 60 miles away, I certainly can't claim Racism is dead. I wish I could write an obituary for it, but I try not to lie.

 

Bleh. When the two collide, it's like winning the lottery to some of these folks.

 

I think economic conditions being what they are offer up a convenient excuse for the less brave police racists to exercise their muscle.

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Also, while some practices are common courtesy (speak evenly, don't be overly aggressive or rude, and so forth) when interacting with the police, as they are with most folks in a civilized society, the list of things you're now apparently supposed to remember when dealing with today's boys in black leads me to envision civilians being stopped by soldiers of an occupying army rather than civilians interacting amicably with law-enabled peacekeepers.

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The number of people on Twitter who believe Garner got what he deserved or that the cop was right is truly disheartening. I've blocked more people today then I have since I signed up for it. The one that took the cake however, is the person who called me a heartless ****head for being disrespectful to the cop who murdered Eric Garner. I'm quite proud of myself for getting through that without the use of swear words.

 

On the upside, the continued protests continue to be heartwarming. Here's hoping they do some good.

This post to say keep your spirits up.
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Also, while some practices are common courtesy (speak evenly, don't be overly aggressive or rude, and so forth) when interacting with the police, as they are with most folks in a civilized society, the list of things you're now apparently supposed to remember when dealing with today's boys in black leads me to envision civilians being stopped by soldiers of an occupying army rather than civilians interacting amicably with law-enabled peacekeepers.

 

Leonard Pitts Jr commented on much the same thing in this article. Particularly in the bottom half

 

He sums it up with "An argument can be made that rights which aren’t respected in the moment they are asserted are not really rights at all."

 

We are dangerously close to a state of slack martial law, one that can instantly be tightened and brought to full force at any time by any police officer in a 20 foot or more radius around him even when there is no crime.

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Holy crap! I just watched the video of the shooting! WHAT THE HELL IS THAT!!!

 

They drive through the park, stop what looks like 15 feet away from the kid, probably scaring the living (soo to be dead) dalight out of the boy who may or may not move his hand (can't see that) to the "gun".

And basically gun the kid down in what looks like a cop-drive-by!

 

From what I heard before I thought they were stopping the car at the pavement, shouted at the boy who then blatantly and full of pre-puberty machisma pointed the toy-gun at the cop - who then, of course, shot to defend himself, not knowing he was only faced with a toy.

 

This looks more like "[sCREECHING TIRES] DROP IT, PUNK!" - "What the ..." - "BLAM!" - Problem solved.

Where did these guys get their training as officers of the law? Grand Theft Auto?

 

Now I can really see why people are really upset about this kind of behaviour - police officers behaving like gang-bangers in uniform!

 

This.

Is.

Shameful.

 

Please note that I am not a cop basher: At my old school we had a top-notch neighbourhood officer, Polizeihauptkommissar Heiko Müller. Great guy, more the fatherly type and 100% helpful when he had a bad day. Usually had a mediocre day and then gave like 150% plus. On a good day scored way higher.

 

It really takes more than a gun to be a good and efficient policeman, as Heiko is living proof: He really serves and protects his community.

These .... (I don't have words or them) ... don't belong to the force.

 

I am really shocked.

 

P.S.: Just read the thread one more time and understand that fellow forum-member Marcus Impudite is a police officer who distances himself from these wrongdoings. My hat's off to you, Sir, and it proves what I just said about your German fellow officer Müller: Don't judge all the cops by these (extremely bad) examples.

Most people don't have contact with police on a friendly basis - usually we only get to speak with them when we get a ticket or when we need theire help - and then we wish that they get the job done like yesterday as if they had a magic wand to make all our perceived evils go away at once.

Of course, we then have a rather bleak perception on them and the service they do. The majority is just doing their job - and a lot if not most in the most professional way they humanly can.

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There are all kinds of things wrong with that video.  If you're responding to what you think is an armed and dangerous individual, I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to pull up within 15 feet and then get out of your vehicle.  If you gun said individual down and then discover it's a kid with a toy gun, I'm pretty sure you should administer first aid or something.  Not that I'm  a cop, but, you know.

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Please note that I am not a cop basher: At my old school we had a top-notch neighbourhood officer, Polizeihauptkommissar Heiko Müller. Great guy, more the fatherly type and 100% helpful when he had a bad day. Usually had a mediocre day and then gave like 150% plus. On a good day scored way higher.

 

I'm not fond of invoking the "No True Scotsman" fallacy, but it's safe to say that these goons in uniforms are as far from actual police officers as Alpha Centauri is to our cozy little mudball.

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