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[Police brutality] American injustice, yet again.


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1 hour ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

Yes.  The police _are_ a gang.

 

Here's a great example:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/05/police-violence-cliques-and-secret-tattoos-fears-rise-over-la-sheriff-gangs

 

 

And there are others, if you care to look for them: actual gangs forming _inside_ law enforcement, complete with brandings /tattoos /social orders and hierarchies, and all of them engaging in gang-like behavior, particularly where that includes violence.  The problems with law-enforcement are _huge_, always have been, and will continue to be ignored as soon as "it all dies down a bit."

 

 

 

All of a sudden people are talking about it again.

 

All of a sudden everyone wants to say something.

 

All of a sudden it's on the front page.

 

 

is it new?  No.  All this excitement and commotion seems to come around every couple of decades-- 

 

and absolutely _nothing_ happens, and everyone goes on to become experts on whatever new thing TV tells them to love.

 

I have made no mistakes and told no lies.  I _am_ actively pissed, because this is something I've been active against since I was damn near killed by two Treutlin County officers back in '82.  Fortunately, they decided cracking my skull and leaving me unconscious beside the road, kicking over my bike, and stealing a "portable computer" (we didn't quite have "laptops" yet) was sufficient.  So yeah-- instant experts on this kind of piss me off.  Do I appreciate that it's yet again in the public eye?  Yes.  Do I hope something will come of it?  Yes.  Have I seen it go around enough to have absolutely no expectations of anything coming of it?  Also yes.

 

I've said these before-- here, as well, if I'm not mistaken:

 

If you're a cop, doing cop things, it's called Maintaining The Thin Blue Line.

 

If you're not a cop, doing cop things, it's called Accessory After the Fact.

 

"No-Knock" means "No Survivors."

 

To be fair, most people can't constantly maintain the energy required to meaningfully fight against systemic injustice at every turn;  if they're not distracted by the struggle to make ends meet or the latest "toy" (it's all too easy to think your milieu is safe if you haven't already been impacted by violence), they're in danger of being chewed up by a system that wants to maintain the machinery no matter the cost. I'm not saying any of this is right, only that I - like many others - can understand the latter motivation. Most simply, however, only the man with his hand in the fire truly knows the pain. I can't say I've ever been the victim of police brutality; the closest it has affected me is via a distant relation of a cousin of mine that was shot to death by the police because he was ill/confused and had accidentally set himself on fire while driving to get help. The only personal interaction I have had with a police officer involved him straight-up lying about something he did that didn't warrant dishonesty.

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I'm not going to try to get into an argument on this.  I'm just going to state things as I see them.  It will be kinda long.  I am a defense attorney and was a public defender for nearly a decade.  So

I'm glad we have a police viewpoint in here.  One of the scoutmasters in our troop is a long time cop, and he has the best stories.  He's also apologetic for the bad apples and "bad shoots" that we us

My point is that it shouldn't matter if the boys in blue are chatting up Beelzebub out for a Sunday stroll; the actions of the person being questioned/stopped are what ought to matter. Putting that as

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9 hours ago, Grailknight said:

 

If John Oliver provokes such a rant as a comedian, what is your opinion of the "journalists" doing opinion shows on FOX News. 

Atleast they admit what they are and set themselves up for counter arguments that can be taken seriously. 

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On 6/11/2020 at 8:36 AM, Hugh Neilson said:

If those who are not experts should have no voice, what does that suggest about the merits of allowing everyone to vote? 

 

Or even freedom of speech?

 

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“Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be a very silent place if no birds sang except the best.”

---Henry van Dyke, poet (1852-1933)

 

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8 hours ago, Pariah said:

I'll be honest, until a few weeks ago I didn't know a no-knock warrant was even a thing. I'm shocked an perplexed that such a procedure even exists.

 

To me, the phrase "No-knock warrant" fairly screams of "unreasonable search and seizure".

They are supposed to be for violent drug offenders who might fight back if given a chance. So instead of knocking on the door and announcing yourself like you should, you knock the door down and charge in.

 

The problem is if the citizen being raided is armed, then busting into their house provokes self defense which ends up in shooting.

 

They tried to get a guy in Texas once and it turned out they raided the wrong house, the detective lied about the activity, and no one had realized where the home owner was when they threw in the flash bangs. And he shot up three or four guys on the raid team. They charged him with murder, and he basically sued the county for false arrest and attempted murder of himself and won.

 

You literally do not have to have a no knock warrant for most of the cases that they are being used for because they aren't hitting fortified crack houses in the middle of the urban jungle

CES   

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51 minutes ago, Trencher said:

I am sorry I dont understand.

 

Opinion Hosts are comedians without the comedy.  They come off as more respectful so people mistake them for journalists or legitimate information sources.  That might be even more deceptive than information-delivered-as-comedy, particularly when it's not as well researched.

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1 hour ago, Ragitsu said:

FOX "News" is unadulterated trash. The only respect I give them is the same respect I afford to a cockroach; both have survived long past the point when they should have died off.

 

I do watch it now and then, if only because it's what's on at my FIL's house.  Leaving aside the "accuracy", it's easily the loudest, flashiest, yellingest cable news programming you'll ever see.  And it's actually kind of fascinating to watch: the hints, the winking suggestion, the faux outrage, the selective coverage.  It's like getting hustled in three card monte, you're obviously getting ripped off but you almost have to respect the skill involved.  It's a straight up Jedi mind trick, of course it works on a certain 40% of the population.

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9 minutes ago, Old Man said:

 

I do watch it now and then, if only because it's what's on at my FIL's house.  Leaving aside the "accuracy", it's easily the loudest, flashiest, yellingest cable news programming you'll ever see.  And it's actually kind of fascinating to watch: the hints, the winking suggestion, the faux outrage, the selective coverage.  It's like getting hustled in three card monte, you're obviously getting ripped off but you almost have to respect the skill involved.  It's a straight up Jedi mind trick, of course it works on a certain 40% of the population.

 

I would say "I wish I could share what little amusement you've managed to derive from it.", but I've seen people become FOX "News" converts...and it isn't a pretty sight. Actually, the transformation is pretty damn depressing/infuriating.

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I do not watch TV often, and I watch it with the sound on only a fraction of even that limited amount of time, but FOX network news and the local network affiliate local news have got to the point where they trigger my sense of wrongness.  This is the sort of feelings I got back as an undergraduate in the mid-1970s when the weird cults were making a name for themselves with how they would try to latch on to susceptible people and warp them into devotees.  It was kind of like the Uncanny Valley, but for purely social interaction without having some physical cues that something was very seriously wrong.  I remember the two weeks leading up to Sun Myung Moon's visit to Seattle, and the people who tried giving tickets away to go see him.  Brrrrrrr.

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To be perfectly honest from you, I come from a family of cops.  I recall growing up as a child with the fear that harm could happen to my parents.  When I see the sedition, subversion, rioting, and other criminal acts being excused by the cult of BLM, its media apologists, politicians, and members; my blood boils.  

 

STOP TREATING COPS LIKE ANIMALS AND THUGS AND TREAT THEM WITH RESPECT.  And I'm glad that Fox News is the ONLY network providing any kind of sympathy to police and their families like mine.  I'm proud to come from a cop family, I'm proud to be white, I'm proud to be American; and I'm going to proud until I die.

 

I'm sick of seeing this parasitic behavior from the gaming community.  These cops would sacrifice their lives to protect us from criminals and terrorists- and yet all I see is an appalling sense of contempt, moronic cynicism, anti-american communist and anarchist sentiments, and flat-out sedition.

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3 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

Opinion Hosts are comedians without the comedy.  They come off as more respectful so people mistake them for journalists or legitimate information sources.  That might be even more deceptive than information-delivered-as-comedy, particularly when it's not as well researched.

 

IME for FOX opinion hosts, "more respectful" depends entirely on the opinions of whoever they're talking to or talking about aligning closely with their own.

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7 minutes ago, grandmastergm said:

STOP TREATING COPS LIKE ANIMALS AND THUGS AND TREAT THEM WITH RESPECT.  And I'm glad that Fox News is the ONLY network providing any kind of sympathy to police and their families like mine.  I'm proud to come from a cop family, I'm proud to be white, I'm proud to be American; and I'm going to proud until I die.

 

I'm sick of seeing this parasitic behavior from the gaming community.  These cops would sacrifice their lives to protect us from criminals and terrorists- and yet all I see is an appalling sense of contempt, moronic cynicism, anti-american communist and anarchist sentiments, and flat-out sedition.

 

You are speaking from a position that America "the system" slavishly cowtows to.  It is a country, culture, and legal system that kisses you on the feet and brushes your hair.

 

It doesn't do that for a lot of other kinds of people.

 

You can be proud to be an American, and white, and from a police family.

 

But the system often (not always, but often) does not respect anything else.  It allows us to exist, sometimes, but only when we aren't an inconvenience.  If we dare be an inconvenience, then things begin to happen.

 

So you'll see a lot of people, who do not exemplify the direct paramount virtues that America touts, view that system with increasing cynicism the further you get away from that.  Call it moronic if you like, you are entitled to your opinion.

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44 minutes ago, grandmastergm said:

 I'm proud to be white

 

How can you be proud of something you never chose? I thought pride was supposed to arise from accomplishment and not happenstance of birth.

 

Before anyone counters with "But what about black pride?!", realize that this is a framing issue; "black pride" movements are based around the desire to be treated fairly...humanely. We kind of have a history of being pricks towards black people, so there is a legitimate precedent to push back against. What exactly are you pushing back against, hm? The occasional inconvenience of hearing someone of color sharing their experience with discrimination?

 

  

44 minutes ago, grandmastergm said:

 I'm proud to be American

 

Come to think of it, unless you emigrated to the states (you know, taking the time, making the effort and spending the cash?), being proud of a status you were simply born with is a hollow pride at best.

 

  

44 minutes ago, grandmastergm said:

I'm sick of seeing this parasitic behavior from the gaming community.

 

44 minutes ago, grandmastergm said:

parasitic behavior

 

Speak plainly.

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It often takes popular response in order to push against people like this (edit- clarification, like Michael Savage, below).  Our current President encourages it.  More relevant to the thread, certain police forces encourage or tow close to this mindset.  Policing is essential, but this is an attitude that is not acceptable.

 

https://www.mediamatters.org/michael-savage/michael-savage-says-military-should-be-called-against-protests-those-punks-shouldve

 

Let me briefly remind people why that's a problem.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE#1985_bombing (and the 65 nearby houses)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Executive_Order_44

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grandmastergm, with a background like yours, I can appreciate and empathize with your outrage. I've always maintained my belief that there are many good cops who genuinely want to serve and protect. But there's undeniable and mounting evidence that many cops unfortunately are indeed behaving like animals and thugs, however they rationalize it; and those cops are also disrespecting your family's heritage and example. An organizational culture that repeatedly excuses and protects cops who behave that way, rather than making them deal with the consequences of their actions, perpetuating and encouraging more abuses, also disrespects your family.

 

You have a right to be proud in being from a police family, in being white, in being American. Much that is good has come from those things. But pride can't be a reason not to see and call out injustice.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

grandmastergm, with a background like yours, I can appreciate and empathize with your outrage. I've always maintained my belief that there are many good cops who genuinely want to serve and protect. But there's undeniable and mounting evidence that many cops unfortunately are indeed behaving like animals and thugs, however they rationalize it; and those cops are also disrespecting your family's heritage and example. An organizational culture that repeatedly excuses and protects cops who behave that way, rather than making them deal with the consequences of their actions, perpetuating and encouraging more abuses, also disrespects your family.

 

I appreciate you being a kinder person than I am, Liaden :)

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23 minutes ago, TrickstaPriest said:

It often takes popular response in order to push against people like this (edit- clarification, like Michael Savage, below).  Our current President encourages it.  More relevant to the thread, certain police forces encourage or tow close to this mindset.  Policing is essential, but this is an attitude that is not acceptable.

 

https://www.mediamatters.org/michael-savage/michael-savage-says-military-should-be-called-against-protests-those-punks-shouldve

 

Let me briefly remind people why that's a problem.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE#1985_bombing (and the 65 nearby houses)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Executive_Order_44

 

I always thought it was funny that a man named Michael Savage behaves like a savage.

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Vice: Police Intelligence Document Spreads Antifa Conspiracy Theory

 

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A document pushed by Washington’s intelligence sharing center discussed a widely debunked theory that Antifa was potentially rioting in local communities.

In an interagency communication sent to local police departments earlier this month, an official with a Washington-state fusion center told cops to look out for members of Antifa traveling to their cities to potentially riot. These claims are unsubstantiated and have largely been debunked across the country.

The news signals how what amounts to a conspiracy theory has permeated through local communities, right through federal law enforcement, and up to the President. Antifa is not an official, centralized group, and instead a general movement of activists who have anti-fasicst worldviews, although President Trump has expressed willingness to designate it as a terrorist organization.

"We are getting requests to follow-up on potential ANTIFA groups coming to local jurisdictions for an unknown purpose, potentially to agitate crowds and create an environment for rioting," a June 2 Get The Word Out (GTWO) alert written by Lieutenant Curt Boyle, director of the Washington State Fusion Center, reads. Fusion Centers are state-operated organizations that aggregate and share law enforcement and surveillance information between state, local, and federal agencies. Motherboard obtained the document through a public records act request. ...

For the past several weeks local communities have been awash with claims that Antifa is bussing members into local areas to cause havoc. NBC News found that these claims went viral on digital neighborhood platforms such as Nextdoor and in group texts, with some of the posts featuring a tweet from a fake Antifa account that was actually created by white nationalist group Identity Evropa. President Trump and senior members of the administration have amplified the conspiracy theory further, with Trump suggesting that Martin Gugion, 75, who was seriously injured after Buffalo, New York police pushed him to the ground, was an "ANTIFA provocateur." There is no evidence to support this claim at all. Attorney General William Barr has also claimed Antifa is linked to the unrest without providing evidence.

But multiple, independent journalistic analyses have found no evidence of such Antifa interference. NPR reviewed court documents of 51 individuals facing federal charges in connection with the unrest; the outlet found that at the time of writing none are alleged to have links to Antifa. The Daily Beast also found that none of the 22 criminal complaints related to the first wave of protest charges mention Antifa in any way. The Associated Press analyzed court records and other information related to 217 people arrested recently in Minneapolis and the District of Columbia, and found that rather than outside agitators, more than 85 percent of those arrested were local residents.

An internal FBI alert said the Bureau's Washington Field Office had no intelligence indicating Antifa involvement in violence during May 31 demonstrations in the DC area, The Nation reported.

Other agencies are acting on the information swirling about Antifa. On Tuesday The Intercept reported how a Twitter user jokingly tweeted that they were the leader of a local Antifa chapter. An FBI official then contacted the person and asked if they wanted to become an informant. ...

The guidance from the fusion center said that some of its information came from the National Association of Chain Drugs Stores, which apparently said that "looters [are] specifically targeting pharmacies and drug stores secured within … What we have seen in Washington is rioters and looters hitting the pharmacy or drug store if it's within the path of their movement of destruction. We haven't seen specially targeted attacks on pharmacies or drug stores."

Mike Harden, the police chief of the Lake Forest Park Police Department, a suburb of Seattle, forwarded the entire message to his police department. "Please keep an eye on Rite Aid," he said.

 

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48 minutes ago, grandmastergm said:

To be perfectly honest from you, I come from a family of cops.  I recall growing up as a child with the fear that harm could happen to my parents.  When I see the sedition, subversion, rioting, and other criminal acts being excused by the cult of BLM, its media apologists, politicians, and members; my blood boils.  

 

STOP TREATING COPS LIKE ANIMALS AND THUGS AND TREAT THEM WITH RESPECT.  And I'm glad that Fox News is the ONLY network providing any kind of sympathy to police and their families like mine.  I'm proud to come from a cop family, I'm proud to be white, I'm proud to be American; and I'm going to proud until I die.

 

I'm sick of seeing this parasitic behavior from the gaming community.  These cops would sacrifice their lives to protect us from criminals and terrorists- and yet all I see is an appalling sense of contempt, moronic cynicism, anti-american communist and anarchist sentiments, and flat-out sedition.

 

I'm glad we have a police viewpoint in here.  One of the scoutmasters in our troop is a long time cop, and he has the best stories.  He's also apologetic for the bad apples and "bad shoots" that we used to hear about occasionally.

 

But he also has the same blind spot that a lot of Fox viewers seem to have, where any criticism of the justice system (or white people) is taken as a personal attack against individual white cops.  It's as though the Fox rhetoric blinds them to the fact that, although cops are willing to risk their lives to protect us from criminals and terrorists, they tend to lump non white people into the "criminals and terrorists" category and not the "us" category.  I know black people who literally will not call 911 for police for any reason, because evidence shows that bringing a policeman with a gun into a situation with a black person only increases the danger to the black person.  To me, that suggests policing could use some serious improvement.

 

Good cops and cop families should absolutely be proud; they're out there doing a dangerous job that I could never do.  I'd like to think they're not like the cops that strangled a man to death in the street in Minneapolis for allegedly passing a counterfeit $10, or the one that strangled a man to death on the sidewalk in NYC for selling cigarettes, or the cops that gunned down a nurse in her own apartment after serving a no-knock warrant to the wrong address, or the Charleston cop that shot a fleeing man in the back and dropped his taser to make up a self defense story.  We've seen more of these cases on video in the past few years than I can keep track of. 

 

The problem is that the good cops aren't really doing much to help.  Instead we see case after case of coverups and mistrials.  We see police responding to peaceful demonstrations against police violence with... more police violence.  And the official spin has become downright Orwellian.  Cops slash journalists' car tires?  "Strategic tire deflation".  Cops shove a peaceful 72-year-old man to the ground, causing TBI?  "Cop was defending himself".  (Or "Antifa terrorist was scanning something jam communications".) 

 

I don't envy good cops' position in all of this, but I'd like to believe that they want to be part of the solution here.

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