[Police brutality] American injustice, yet again.

[pinecone]

14 hours ago, csyphrett said:

Were they the ones doing the throwing?

CES 

Question that has to be asked, is some one trying to amp up the protests? Can't have peaceful protests, that might cause change.

[ScottishFox]

And another innocent dies.  Crime?  Playing crash bandicoot too loudly and running into incompetent police.

 

Police get a noise complaint.  Knock loudly and say, "police" in a voice that could not possibly be heard through the door at any distance.

 

The guy answers the door somewhat aggressively (late at night, rental neighborhood) but as soon as he sees it is police he drops to his knees and tries to put the gun down.

 

Officer Incompetine shoots him twice in the back even though the gun the homeowner is holding is pointed to the ground and inside the apartment.

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

In the interest of fairness, it should be noted the cops were told they were responding to a domestic violence case (the complainant actually said he'd say that "if it would make them come faster," so he's a horse's ass).

 

I sometimes wonder if a story like the cops reported afterward is how they really remember it, or if it's a conscious lie. In either case, they clearly botched the situation badly and shouldn't be on the street with guns.

[ScottishFox]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

In the interest of fairness, it should be noted the cops were told they were responding to a domestic violence case (the complainant actually said he'd say that "if it would make them come faster," so he's a horse's ass).

 

I sometimes wonder if a story like the cops reported afterward is how they really remember it, or if it's a conscious lie. In either case, they clearly botched the situation badly and shouldn't be on the street with guns.

 

The neighbor, in an effort to get faster service from the police, told a lie that contributed to that guy being dead.

 

If you're going to put two bullets into the back of a suspect as he immediately complies with a verbal command (free hand up, dropping to knees, putting pistol down) then police work isn't the right job for you. 

That officer might be better suited to a new career like inmate.

[Matt the Bruins]

Maybe someone should hand him a noose and tell him to remand himself into his own custody as a suspect.

[Cancer]

I missed this item in Nature back in June, a discussion of the police-killing phenomenon, and the very poor level of documentation and data collection about it.  Frankly, the deliberate neglect to collect data about killings by police (and deaths due to injuries inflicted by police) can only be understood as compliance with the police culture's feelings that they (1) can kill whomever they want, and (2) should have no accountability about it.

 

It does include a graphic about killings of police officers, about which the data are much clearer.  I see no systematic trends in the data stream (2007-2018) for police killed by shootings and other criminal activities; that's rock steady at about 50 +/- 10 a year, nationwide.   The "accidental" deaths of police looks also steady at about 55 +/- 12 a year over the full interval.

[Ragitsu]

Roofers and open-ocean fishermen are in higher risk jobs.

 

Edit: Loggers too, apparently.

[csyphrett]

my job used to be up there but I don't know if it still is

CES

[ScottishFox]

3 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

Roofers and open-ocean fishermen are in higher risk jobs.

 

Edit: Loggers too, apparently.

 

Surprising number of jobs are more dangerous and yet those people don't get hyped up like super heroes even though we all need roofs, plumbing, electricity, food and the like.

[Lord Liaden]

I think you just hit the crux. "Roofs, plumbing, electricity, food..." all vital, but none glamorous. Part of the environment we all see every day, easy to take for granted. Just not as flashy as guns and badges and fast cars. And the dangers these varied professionals face are impersonal, without the thrill of active aggression.

[Ragitsu]

Another thing: they don't have the ironclad unions that police officers enjoy.

[Starlord]

Everyone knows the most dangerous job in the world is the assistant to a bad magician.

[Old Man]

Not security on a starship?

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

Not security on a starship?

 

You know the popular media always seeks to exaggerate the negatives.....

[Cancer]

zzzzzzZZZZAAAP!!

What are the non-negatives again?

[tombrown803]

2 hours ago, Old Man said:

Not security on a starship?

 

Only if you wear a red shirt.

[wcw43921]

Not necessarily.  Scotty wore a red shirt throughout the original series, and he only got killed once--whereas Kirk got killed twice that I know of ("The Enterprise Incident" and "Amok Time.")  Wearing a red shirt isn't a guarantee of death

[Lord Liaden]

I guess we have to qualify, "being an extra wearing a red shirt."

[Starlord]

Not security on a starship?  was found murdered yesterday.  Cause of death:  repeated explanation.  The Joke Police will begin an investigation immediately.

[Ternaugh]

2 hours ago, Starlord said:

Not security on a starship?  was found murdered yesterday.  Cause of death:  repeated explanation.  The Joke Police will begin an investigation immediately.

 

You take his Tricorder and I'll take his wallet.

[Pattern Ghost]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but  . . . that is a stupid way to answer your door.

 

If he was afraid it may not be the police, he could have asked one of them to step into view, or barring that, called 911 and verified whether they dispatched someone. Barring all that, if he's going to answer anyway, he could have peaked out the door with the gun holstered out of sight, then said, "Hang on a minute, let me get a shirt," and closed and locked the door, stowed the weapon, then went and talked to them.

 

Guns aren't magic charms. Stepping right out  your door with a gun in your hand when you can't see what is out there will get you killed whether it's the police or the criminals you're afraid of. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy wasn't a bit impaired by alcohol or something else at the time, because that was colossally stupid judgement.

 

I honestly don't think this was a bad shoot per se. The guy yanked the door open and took a step toward the officer's partner with a gun in hand. The shooter started drawing and going  into a practiced sequence of movements as he was issuing the command. There's that reactionary gap in play. Experts can suss it out, but this isn't cut and dry.

 

Edit: Of course, this isn't to say that the cops aren't callous pieces of trash:

 

Nees, who is several feet away from Whitaker at this point, asks the officer if he could handcuff her so she could be near her boyfriend.

 

After the officer says no, she asks if Ferragamo could check if Whitaker was OK.

 

"I'm leaning toward the fact that he's not," Ferragamo responds.

 

From this article on the shooting:

 

[Badger]

On 8/9/2020 at 7:39 PM, pinecone said:

14 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but  . . . that is a stupid way to answer your door.

 

If he was afraid it may not be the police, he could have asked one of them to step into view, or barring that, called 911 and verified whether they dispatched someone. Barring all that, if he's going to answer anyway, he could have peaked out the door with the gun holstered out of sight, then said, "Hang on a minute, let me get a shirt," and closed and locked the door, stowed the weapon, then went and talked to them.

 

Guns aren't magic charms. Stepping right out  your door with a gun in your hand when you can't see what is out there will get you killed whether it's the police or the criminals you're afraid of. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy wasn't a bit impaired by alcohol or something else at the time, because that was colossally stupid judgement.

 

I honestly don't think this was a bad shoot per se. The guy yanked the door open and took a step toward the officer's partner with a gun in hand. The shooter started drawing and going  into a practiced sequence of movements as he was issuing the command. There's that reactionary gap in play. Experts can suss it out, but this isn't cut and dry.

 

Edit: Of course, this isn't to say that the cops aren't callous pieces of trash:

 

 

 

 

From this article on the shooting:

 

 

Well, I do think we need to realize a difference "you made a terrible misjudgment that shows you are not cut out for police work" and legit criminal police misconduct.

 

Both should be kicked out, but only one charged with crimes.

 

Also whatever you think of cops, proceed with caution in dealing with them. Sudden movements, antagonizing and similar probably should be kept to a minimum just in case. Escalating the situation is a bad idea. 

[Lord Liaden]

23 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but  . . . that is a stupid way to answer your door.

 

 

I'm inclined to agree. But then I would have to ask, all things considered, was it stupid enough that he deserved to be killed for it?

[Pattern Ghost]

4 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I'm inclined to agree. But then I would have to ask, all things considered, was it stupid enough that he deserved to be killed for it?

 

No, but you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. Whether or not "victim blaming" leaves a bad taste in the mouth, that man contributed to his own death.

 

To only look at the police side of the equation is to fail to learn a lesson in how to safely conduct oneself with a firearm, and when dealing with the police. The department in question has a pretty negative reputation that seems well earned, so I'm not exonerating them by pointing this out. That's just one more reason not to be foolish around jumpy people with guns, and who outnumber you, and who have you outflanked and also have armor and radios.

[Pattern Ghost]

A while back, I almost TASEd a guy at work. This guy was on an ambulance gurney, with two medics flanking him. Pulls a closed folding knife out. The attendants grab him by each hand, and scream "KNIFE!" I ran around the corner, assessed the situation, saw that I had no real option to disarm the guy due to the one medic having a death grip on the subject's wrist and hand, keeping the fist closed, so drew the TASER. The rest is a blur, mostly. I tunneled on the laser dot on the guy's belly, ordered him to drop the knife, did not hear the reply, did not see the knife drop or have one of the medics call clear .  . . then I shouted TASER! TASER! TASER! and moved my finger to the trigger. Fortunately, I saw the knife hand was empty when the motion from the medics jumping back drew my attention. I held the shot, asked if they got the knife, and they had. The recording was corrupted, but part of it was the guy saying he wasn't going to hurt anyone except himself. The entire thing was over in the blink of an eye from my perspective. Fortunately, I didn't have to fire (more paperwork), but it shows how fast things go from a shout about a weapon, to action.

 

Which is why you don't bust out of your door with a weapon in hand when the police knock on it. Or anyone. That guy could have been taken out the same way by a pipe wrench, really.