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Simplifying Combat


LouGoncey

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And this is exactly what has always appealed to me the most about Hero: the ability to create any game I want, exactly how I want it, rather than trying to fit my ideas inside someone else's system.

 

But yeah, can be a lot of work.

 

Usually, once I get rolling on a project, I can get it done. It is the realization at the beginning that I have to build just about everything that puts the brakes on. Currently working on getting momentum towards.....something. Not really related to speed of combat though so I'll drop the subject for this thread.

 

Somebody up thread mentioned having problems with innovating during combat. I used to have similar problems. So I would do a flow chart of if/then scenarios. It not only helped me run a few battles, it also helped me train my mind on how to innovate during actual combat. Having the Speed Chart laid out is amazingly effective too. I do that just out of hand now so I forget that it is sometimes not an obvious solution.

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In this day and age, if I'm running a game, I don't want to see the backs of laptops, phones in hand or in front of the players, or anything else on the table except the game I'm running.

The reason that you would see my Laptop and/or iPad is that I use those instead of printing out a Character sheet. I also use both of those as book readers for my gaming books. IMHO it's becoming harder to be a luddite GM. My only rule for what players do with their tech at the table is that they need to pay attention to the game. If they aren't paying attention then they find their character taking delays when their phases come up.

 

IMHO if too many players are not paying attention then I am not doing an adequate job as GM coming up with stuff that is fun and engaging for them to do.

 

Also, Hero combat isn't really much more complicated than D20/Pathfinder. It's just complicated in different ways. There are ways to help speed up combat and most of those are posted in this thread. I would also caution against changing the game too much in the persuit of "simplicity" you run the risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater and losing parts of what makes Hero different from other systems.

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My issue comes from people being more interested in whatever game they're currently playing on their comp, bullshit texts coming from people not involved in the game, which leads to more texts being sent and received.

 

It is generally not worth trying to get people's attention when it's their turn, or to get them to pay attention to the game in general, and have to give a half  hour recap of recent events because the guy that has the skill/connection/lead or whatever wasn't paying attention to the flow of the game with the other players.

 

Far easier just to outlaw the electronics. It's one thing for the GM to have and another for all the players to do so.

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I struggle with the whole player electronics issue too. I have some players that are using their tablets for their character sheets, game books, etc and that's fine. But some are using them to check Facebook, even play solitaire. Sad to say, I've even caught myself checking email between turns, searching for a mini for my new character, etc when I'm on the other side of the GM screen. It's just one more thing making it harder to keep everyone focused on the game.

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The biggest way to speed up combat in my experience is

1: The 30 second rule mentioned above. I call it the hesitation rule, but the effect is the same. When I ask what do you do? The player should have an answer in short order.

2: Wing it. If I forgot how a rule works out need a case ruling, I never waste game time looking it up. I tell the players I don't recall the rule, declare and move on.Then I look it up out of game out one of the players looks it up while we play.

 

PS: Electronics are useful at the table and I expect the players to bring them.

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2: Wing it. If I forgot how a rule works out need a case ruling, I never waste game time looking it up. I tell the players I don't recall the rule, declare and move on.Then I look it up out of game out one of the players looks it up while we play.

A great rule, and one that experienced long time players sometimes tend to forget with Hero.  We get too caught up with the right build, the exact rule, and the page number, particularly I think in 6th edition.

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The biggest way to speed up combat in my experience is

1: The 30 second rule mentioned above. I call it the hesitation rule, but the effect is the same. When I ask what do you do? The player should have an answer in short order.

2: Wing it. If I forgot how a rule works out need a case ruling, I never waste game time looking it up. I tell the players I don't recall the rule, declare and move on.Then I look it up out of game out one of the players looks it up while we play.

 

PS: Electronics are useful at the table and I expect the players to bring them.

 

A great rule, and one that experienced long time players sometimes tend to forget with Hero.  We get too caught up with the right build, the exact rule, and the page number, particularly I think in 6th edition.

We do the "wing it and look it up later--or during down time" rule all of the time.

 

 

As for electronics, yes it can be a problem if people aren't considerate. But we use them all the time for the various reasons already mentioned, such as character sheets and rule books. I've also used a laptop for HCM (kind of a must-have). And one thing I haven't seen anyone mention is session notes. Nothing keeps me more in the game than taking notes (as a player). For the campaign I'm currently in, it has been very useful to have all of the session decisions documented, the events (including dates and times--we sometimes deal with time travel so this is very important), etc.

 

(Yes, I could use pen and paper for notes. But I type faster, and my hand doesn't cramp.)

 

However, I agree that the non-game related technology use is a distraction.

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I have to be honest, the last time that I ran Hero System, I didn't find combat to be any slower than when I ran Dungeons and Dragons 3.5.  In the D&D campaign, the characters were only 8th level when it ended.  I think at higher levels, D&D would take even longer.  It has a lot more moving parts than Hero System does.  Admittedly, in my opinion combat is a bit slow in both systems.  I just don't want to reduce the things that make Hero System what it is; otherwise, why am I not playing a different game.  Both D&D and Hero System have a lot for the gm to keep up with.  What I do is engage the players even when it isn't even their turn.  For example, I will have players roll for my NPCs.  I don't do it in situations where I don't want to give anything away (like a surprise), but it works great.  I was really surprised at how engaging it was when the players where rolling against another player.  I would also have players roll for a friendly NPC that was helping the party.  This kept everyone involved (and often cursing, lol) even when it wasn't their turn.  The only thing I did out of all of the things suggested in this thread was used a flat Stun Multiplier to save that one extra die roll.

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I think the best ways to streamline and quicken combat are to simply run things efficiently and with preparedness.  Cut down the cross chatter, be ready with your enemies and their tactics, have the speed chart set up before starting, know the rules and the setting well, that kind of thing.

 

Combining that with winging it rather than looking up rules, knowing things like the OCV+11-3d6 formula, and letting players handle their own damage effects helps things move along.  Hero combat is necessarily slower than, say, AD&D or Savage Worlds because its not as abstracted and generic.  Its blow-by-blow kinetic action, its exciting panel by panel comic book combat.  You can only make that go so fast, because each move is portrayed.

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2: Wing it. If I forgot how a rule works out need a case ruling, I never waste game time looking it up. I tell the players I don't recall the rule, declare and move on.Then I look it up out of game out one of the players looks it up while we play.

Same here! If we can't remember/figure it out after 30-seconds of discussion, GM makes a ruling and moves on. Then I look it up afterwards to see if I got it right, and hopefully reinforce it for next time.

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I struggle with the whole player electronics issue too. I have some players that are using their tablets for their character sheets, game books, etc and that's fine. But some are using them to check Facebook, even play solitaire. Sad to say, I've even caught myself checking email between turns, searching for a mini for my new character, etc when I'm on the other side of the GM screen. It's just one more thing making it harder to keep everyone focused on the game.

 

I try to only do this when my character isn't in scene, just to avoid interrupting other ppls roleplaying...

 

I think the biggest interruption to any games combat (or even non-combat) flow is relaying anecdotes to each other, because everyone is friends gathered around a table as friends, and BSing is part of it.

 

As for speeding up Hero Combat, for me it's always come down to just knowing the system, or at least your character, well enough to make your actions go quickly and smoothly. Know where stuff is on your character sheet, if you have to create a stripped down, no frills, no builds, just the Facts sheet for your use.

 

But Hero Combat is - and I'm dead serious about this - no faster or slower than any other game systems combat system. Slowdowns are almost always (in any game) due to lack of familiarity than any other factor.

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As an experienced player and sometimes GM, when playing I try to help the less experienced players with finding stuff on their sheets or explaining terns or any other things that I can do to take pressure off a GM. Which does help speed things up in the game.

 

This is one of the few reasons I allow a laptop or tablet near the gaming table (MapTool notwithstanding).

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The little sheet I worked up with combat tips Hero Survival Combat Guide might be a help.  Its just a 2 page sheet you can print on either side and hand to players or have available to them.  Its got basic maneuvers and ideas, tips such as "what do I do if I'm having a hard time hitting" and "what if my opponent is too tough to hurt with my attack."  That way its a sheet with only what you want them to consider, not the entire internet and all their text buddies as well

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Newbies or chronically indecisive players tend to do well in ranged combat support roles, so I tend to steer them in that direction. Fewer advantages and abilities to keep track off, no "this build isn't optimal!" episodes and usually just a choice between "I shoot the dude/monster/blob!" and "I hunker down, trying not to salty tears into my wound".

 

(I'd still like someone to make a dice calculator that works with actual physical objects. Either by having very funky, non-Zocchi-approved dice or some kind of visual pattern recognition)

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Newbies or chronically indecisive players tend to do well in ranged combat support roles, so I tend to steer them in that direction. Fewer advantages and abilities to keep track off, no "this build isn't optimal!" episodes and usually just a choice between "I shoot the dude/monster/blob!" and "I hunker down, trying not to salty tears into my wound".

 

(I'd still like someone to make a dice calculator that works with actual physical objects. Either by having very funky, non-Zocchi-approved dice or some kind of visual pattern recognition)

Also the tactics guy. The one who yries to squeeze as much advantage as possible over each move/attack. I'm not suggesting that a character needs to fight stupidly but reviewing each move can take too much time and hinder the feel of free flowing combat-like say Star Wars.

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Urging the tactics dude towards the long-range spectrum? Dear Hastur, no. Ranged character builds tend to be easy enough to abuse, especially on the heroic level. Never mind that in a modern campaign you don't want to give Mr. Tacticool more opportunities than usual to bring out his gun nuttery.

 

Not that this is a big problem. Tactics monsters tend to read even new games in one slew and start the session by asking the GM about his interpretation of all the patchy parts.

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I'll put up with the guy that can't figure out what to do and hold their phase a lot (had a speedster like that of all people, 7 speed and completely unable to make decisions or act.  Hold, hold, hold, hold...).  He you can help with suggestions and other players can give ideas.  The people that frustrate me and make me wish they'd just stay home are the ones with their noses in the phone or book or talking to people and not paying attention to the game.  Why are you even here?  As a GM I put a lot of work into each game, and its just rude to everyone involved to not at least pretend you're interested.

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