CaptnStrawberry Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Following up somewhat on another thread where we find the oop Vol. I of 6th edition going online for thousands of dollars (at the very least hundreds). As a latecomer to this edition, I have: Hardcopies: 6E vol. 2, Champions Powers, Champions Complete (plus the villain books) PDFs: Basic Rulebook (print copy on the way), Champions Universe & Champions genre book Is there a rational reason that I need vol I, or do I basically have all the content already? Like many gamers, I'm a bit of a completist, and the spot where it should be on my shelf bugs me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 6e1 is still available as a PDF It can effectively be thought of as an Advanced GM's Guide version of the rules (complementary to the Advanced Players Guides 1&2) Think of it as the rules from Champions Complete plus ALL the FAQ entries and examples The FULL generic rules spectrum now includes: HERO System Basic Champions Complete (and soon to be in general release Fantasy Hero Complete) 6e1 & 6e2 APG1 & APG2 Hero System Martial Arts, Equipment Guide & Bestiary Champions Powers and the Hero System Grimoire are borderline generic/genre specific (supers & fantasy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 I consider the two-piece 6th edition rules the expert set, with all the rules, explanation, and examples. Good for an experienced GM to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 From what I can tell, Hero Games considers 6E1/6E2 obsolete and no longer representative of the current state of the Hero System rules. I'm not really sure why they make the PDFs of them available but not POD softcovers, but in any case only CC and the books based on the changes in CC are considered "current". For the record, the old 6e Hero System Core Library was: 6E1/6E2, APG1, APG2, Bestiary, Equipment Guide, Grimoire, Martial Arts, and Skills. Hero System Vehicles was originally intended to be the final volume in the core library, but never made it to publication before the product line was abandoned. If one's goal is to have the latest version of the rules for use in play, then CC is all you need. If one's goal is to complete a collection of previous edition materials, then acquiring 6E1 is pretty much a must, don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 From what I can tell, Hero Games considers 6E1/6E2 obsolete and no longer representative of the current state of the Hero System rules. I'm not really sure why they make the PDFs of them available but not POD softcovers, but in any case only CC and the books based on the changes in CC are considered "current". Jason stated that CC replaced 6E1/6E2 in a post some time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnStrawberry Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 I suppose I'm an unnuanced layperson, but to me the 6E material and CC are the same edition; no major (and apparently only a few minor) changes to the rules were made, they were simply repackaged. D&D 4.0 and D&D Essentials would be the closest analogy off the top of my head. Doubt I would bother with the APGs and other supplements, I'm thinking with Hero Designer and my collection of 5e stuff I would get by! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Sure its not that much has changed, and the big books are still valid and useful for explaining specific details of the rules. I think there's a place for them still. Some time I want to print my pdfs off, maybe edit out some of the intro stuff (here's what changed, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Nothing wrong with that. However, those books do contain useful stuff. For example, the attached table from 6e1 is NOT in Champions Complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnStrawberry Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Ah, but I just checked my copy of the Basic Rulebook and that chart is reproduced on page 21. And I guess that's my problem, Hero is kind of a jigsaw puzzle at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Good Catch. I had always assumed that Champions Complete had everything that was in Hero System Basic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Makes one wonder just how complete Champions Complete is after all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmachu Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Ok so for us newer folks(or folks coming back) what IS the current rule set books? i picked up champions complete but its not the current ruleset? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doresh Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 It is. Champions Complete is the current standard (except for fantasy stuff once Fantasy Complete gets out). And that lower half of the table is in Champions Complete on page 20, with the comparisons somewhat existing in text form above it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 I haven't seen FC yet, so I'm curious how much it has in common with CC in terms of the writeup for the core rules (not the genre-specific stuff). Do they have an identical set of opening chapters? If not, then there truly is no such thing as a single "core system rules" text anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 It seems like Hero is moving away from the idea of the single core rules for now. If that works best for sales and survival of the company, I'm fine with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 I haven't seen FC yet, so I'm curious how much it has in common with CC in terms of the writeup for the core rules (not the genre-specific stuff). Do they have an identical set of opening chapters? If not, then there truly is no such thing as a single "core system rules" text anymore. It seems like Hero is moving away from the idea of the single core rules for now. If that works best for sales and survival of the company, I'm fine with that. Jason stated in his post that there will be multiple versions of the rules (i.e., CC, FHC, MHI, and even Luche Libre). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothere Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 So I can stop worrying about having to buy 6 different books, and just get CC to play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 So I can stop worrying about having to buy 6 different books, and just get CC to play? Short answer: Yes. Other books may be helpful, but you can build everything you need with just CC. Plus, there's a lot of material here on the boards and on some of the members' web sites that you can easily use as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 At some point if you play Hero a lot you'll benefit from the 6th edition 2 volume books just for the completest, most exhaustive rules explanations and examples you can get. Consider them like the graduate level Hero materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 I would advise new players to stick with CC and just pretend that 6E1/6E2 doesn't exist. Those older books may be more exhaustive (making the Champions Complete name rather ironic), but they are exhaustive with regard to a body of rules that are no longer totally correct. Navigating the discrepencies is not something a new player should have to be faced with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Something else to keep in mind though... If someone asks a rules forum question Steve Long only gives answers that refer to 6e1 and 6e2. And while Steve may not be an employee anymore he likely still has an ownership stake in Hero Games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 I think that's somewhat problematic. Players by nature like to know that they are playing according to the "official" rules, even/especially when they base their house rules upon them. Giving official answers out of an obsolete set of rules is bound to lead to needless confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 But the rules aren't technically obsolete. They've just been ported into genre specific rulebooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 The only specific difference is the Class of Mind rule and the nixig of the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baronspam Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 I think of it this way- 6e 1 and 2 are a reference document. They do no make up a game as much as a system from which you can construct the game you want to play. That could be Champions, Fantasy, MHI, or a totally homebrew game on whatever subject you care. The "complete" line of books does the hard work of taking that reference source and boiling it down to a set of rules for a particular genre or setting. Champions Complete is what you need to pay Champions. Champions is a subset of the hero system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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