Supergirl

[Lord Liaden]

Making someone who's supposed to be highly respected, look so inept just so the star can shine in comparison, is simply lazy writing.

 

Superman in his appearances in this series has become what in professional wrestling is called a "jobber," someone whose purpose it is to loose matches so as to enhance the reputation of the lead wrestler on the card. Superman here has stopped being even a competent-looking jobber.

[Scott Ruggels]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

Making someone who's supposed to be highly respected, look so inept just so the star can shine in comparison, is simply lazy writing.

  Reveal hidden contents

Superman in his appearances in this series has become what in professional wrestling is called a "jobber," someone whose purpose it is to loose matches so as to enhance the reputation of the lead wrestler on the card. Superman here has stopped being even a competent-looking jobber.

 

Lazy writing or......INTERSECTIONALITY!!!!!!

[Pattern Ghost]

I'm not too concerned about Superman. Though I'm glad he's heading off planet, so they don't have to keep thinking of ways to nerf him. (Thinking not being CW's strong suit.) Of course, putting him in a space setting will invite Super-Worf references, but what can ya do?

 

A few points:

 

Superman was the only one who knew how to use the book. In fact, he said that he's seen several similar books, indicating a vast experience difference. I actually thought that was a nice touch.

 

The cheap knockoff had the reality-altering book, and stated that he made himself into an improved version of Superman, so reasonable that he's stronger. They should've shown a bit more of an experience difference in actually using the powers, similar to Ollie not knowing how to best use the Flash's powers, but maybe magic books aren't consistent.  (Because who needs internal consistency when you have magic, right? <-- this is sarcasm)

 

They didn't hang a lantern on why he didn't strip the villain of his powers first, but it also didn't seem like he had fine control over the process. The effect seemed to be blue waves of energy moving around without direction, changing things. The book also seemed to have a bit of a mind of its own or an agenda. For example, it put Earth 1 Alex Danvers in contact with Kara, even though it didn't give the bad guy any info on Kara. So, some magic book handwavium happening there.

 

I do like the actor, and his portrayal of Superman/Clark. 

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

35 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said:

Superman was the only one who knew how to use the book. In fact, he said that he's seen several similar books, indicating a vast experience difference. I actually thought that was a nice touch.

 

The cheap knockoff had the reality-altering book, and stated that he made himself into an improved version of Superman, so reasonable that he's stronger. They should've shown a bit more of an experience difference in actually using the powers, similar to Ollie not knowing how to best use the Flash's powers, but maybe magic books aren't consistent.  (Because who needs internal consistency when you have magic, right? <-- this is sarcasm)

 

They didn't hang a lantern on why he didn't strip the villain of his powers first, but it also didn't seem like he had fine control over the process. The effect seemed to be blue waves of energy moving around without direction, changing things. The book also seemed to have a bit of a mind of its own or an agenda. For example, it put Earth 1 Alex Danvers in contact with Kara, even though it didn't give the bad guy any info on Kara. So, some magic book handwavium happening there.

 

I do like the actor, and his portrayal of Superman/Clark. 

 

 

 

I have no problem with Tyler Hoechlin's characterization of Superman. His nobility and confidence tempered with modesty and humor strikes the right note for me. But I remember his first appearance on the Supergirl TV show, when he arrived at the DEO, and everyone there responded with respect and awe. That's who Superman is supposed to be. The fool he's become would never have earned such respect, or even survived this long.

 

I also liked that Superman was the only one to know how to use the book. Not so much that he had it promptly taken away from him. Having Kara and Barry fight anti-Superman to keep him away from the book until Clark could finish, would have been a much better way to highlight them without nerfing him.

 

We can come up with all sorts of rationalizations for why Superman acted like such an incompetent in this episode, but we shouldn't have to. The episode should have made such explanations clear, if they had any. But I don't believe they even bothered to try.

[Pattern Ghost]

7 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

We can come up with all sorts of rationalizations for why Superman acted like such an incompetent in this episode, but we shouldn't have to. The episode should have made such explanations clear, if they had any. But I don't believe they even bothered to try. 

 

I've found that if you're going to watch CW shows without going insane, it's best to ignore the stuff that irritates you. Kind of like my wife. I have to wait for her to turn her Pattern Ghost filters off to make sure she hears what I'm saying if it's important.

[Scott Ruggels]

2 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

I've found that if you're going to watch CW shows without going insane, it's best to ignore the stuff that irritates you.

 

I gave up after the second season of Flash. The first season was nice, but it declined after that. I don’t watch TV to put up with annoyance. (I also run strong ad blockers and other browser tricks to avoid annoyance. )

[Bazza]

Green Lantern revealed in recent crossover. Interesting. 

 

https://cosmicbook.news/david-ramsey-green-lantern-john-stewart

 

[zslane]

I agree that Tyler Hoechlin had the pesonality of Superman down pat. But Hollywood continues to have the ongoing problem--for me, anyway--that they can't seem to cast someone with the correct physique for Superman. It is one thing to give him fake muscles when he's in his supersuit and ask us to suspend our disbelief there, but when he's on the farm and in form-fitting civvies, you can see how flimsy his arms are and it completely breaks the illusion.

[Lord Liaden]

Then you see him in his Superman costume, and you realize he's not flimsy at all. His muscles are substantial and well defined. He's just built like a normal athletic male, rather than a steroid case. As witness (links potentially NSFW):

 

https://answersafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Tyler-Hoechlin-640x426.jpeg

 

https://data.whicdn.com/images/295567128/original.gif

 

For my part, I find that refreshing.

 

[zslane]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

He's just built like a normal athletic male

 

Precisely. The thing is, Superman isn't built like a normal athletic male. He's the idealized form of the "super man", bigger, stronger, and larger than life. It takes a really big guy to properly fill that suit.

 

[Lord Liaden]

*Shrug*  Chris Evans isn't as big as comic-book Captain America. Chris Hemsworth isn't as big as comic-book Thor. Chris Reeve wasn't as big as comic-book Superman. But their physical presence, and their acting, conveys the sense of their strength quite effectively IMO, without their having to be musclebound. YMMV

[zslane]

I still believe that CG is ultimately the way to go. It's what they do for characters like The Hulk and Thanos, as well as characters like Spider-Man and Black Panther. Going digital allows the characters to be the correct size and have the correct physique. It's just that there's still a bit of uncanny valley to crawl out of before Hollywood can rely on it entirely for characters like Cap, Thor, Superman, and Batman.

[slikmar]

I wish Batwoman wasn't a streamed show on CW. I wouldn't mind watching it, especially now that Psycho Pirate is revealed, although he seems to have more to do with Crisis.

[Lord Liaden]

I'm not sure how much you're missing. CW superheroes are usually more impressive as guest stars in other shows than when featured in their own series.

[Pattern Ghost]

On 12/14/2018 at 1:53 PM, zslane said:

 

Precisely. The thing is, Superman isn't built like a normal athletic male. He's the idealized form of the "super man", bigger, stronger, and larger than life. It takes a really big guy to properly fill that suit.

 

 

Roid freak. Original Superman was big, but not bigger than a non-steroidal strongman.

 

 

Edit:

Looks like he skips leg days though.

[Lord Liaden]

Have you noticed that Melissa Benoist wears a padded costume to make her look more buff? Even then she's no Rhonda Rousey. Nor does she need to be IMO.

[Pattern Ghost]

Yeah, you can tell from the way her triceps look flexed when she's got her arm bent, and especially in the shoulders. But it's fairly lightly-applied. All of the CW costumes have some padded muscles*. Trying to get the effect of defined muscles, because unlike comic book fabric, real fabric hides muscle definition. It's a reasonable compromise going for the comic-book tights look.

 

 

 

*Not sure on the Arrow costume, since it's not really trying to emulate comic book tights.

[zslane]

16 hours ago, slikmar said:

I wish Batwoman wasn't a streamed show on CW.

 

When did Batwoman become a CW streaming show? What is a CW streaming show anyway? I'm a little confused.

 

15 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

Original Superman was big, but not bigger than a non-steroidal strongman.

 

Very true! However, that's not the depiction of Superman that is the norm today. Expectations for the physique of superheroes like Superman have changed significantly over the last 80 years, or hadn't you noticed?

 

14 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Even then she's no Rhonda Rousey. Nor does she need to be IMO.

 

Agreed. But that is because throughout nearly all of Supergirl's comic book history, she's been drawn/depicted as a slender (almost waifish by superhero standards), physically fit but not muscle-bound girl (or young woman). Even as Wonder Woman evolved to look like a female body builder over the decades, Supergirl has not. That's why Melissa Benoist needs no substantial padding for fake muscles in her supersuit.

[Cassandra]

I bet Lockwood was talking to Luthor on the phone.

[Pattern Ghost]

5 hours ago, zslane said:

Very true! However, that's not the depiction of Superman that is the norm today. Expectations for the physique of superheroes like Superman have changed significantly over the last 80 years, or hadn't you noticed?

 

Noticing and liking are two different things.

 

New isn't always better. I mean, here's an example of modern comic book art:

 

 

(This isn't a serious example. Please forgive me for subjecting people to a Liefield.)

[death tribble]

We will have to get Hermit to a sheltered ward where he can cry his eyes out on a fence.

This close to Christmas, how could you ?

[Grailknight]

That's terrible but not really modern. It's close to 30 years ago.

[Cassandra]

19 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

Noticing and liking are two different things.

 

New isn't always better. I mean, here's an example of modern comic book art:

 

 

(This isn't a serious example. Please forgive me for subjecting people to a Liefield.)

 

Looks like Cap is Busting Out All Over!

[Pattern Ghost]

4 hours ago, Grailknight said:

That's terrible but not really modern. It's close to 30 years ago.

 

23 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

This isn't a serious example

Also, first example from 1939, so more modern than that.

 

And the 90s is when the current design trend started IMO.

 

Edit: The art posted by zslane looks a lot like the Jim Lee version, which puts the artist in the same era, though more recent work, if it's actually him. Style is similar anyway. Just checked, it's Lee.

[Pattern Ghost]

3 hours ago, Cassandra said:

Looks like Cap is Busting Out All Over!

 

I think in the next panel, Iron Man reaches into his chest to pull out a cold brew, demonstrating that this is merely a Cap Fridge, and the odd perspective is just his chest door in the open position.