Worse than rape

[Lord Liaden]

You people are officially twisted.

[Ragitsu]

You people are officially twisted.

 

Just call it "research". While I abhor playing evil/very shady characters as a player, I often brush up on what's considered credible villainy these days as part of my GM duties.

[Lord Liaden]

Well, I did create and write up the guy below for an article in Digital Hero. I suppose I have no right to complain.

[Ragitsu]

Well, I did create and write up the guy below for an article in Digital Hero. I suppose I have no right to complain.

 

I got a very late 80s/early 90s cyberpunk feel off of that picture.

[Badger]

Worst thing I can think of is:

 

 

Crimelord rapes heroine's little sister, making them watch,  and the little sister traumatized eventually commits suicide. Older siblings do tend to be protective of the younger in some families.

 

 

 

 

[JmOz]

I want to thank everyone who was involved in this thread.  As far as I am considered I got what I needed from it.  The character is named PIXIE and is up for viewing in Champions. 

 

I did decide that the less said the better

[gewing]

Topic says it all.  What would you consider to be worse than rape?  I have an idea for a female hero, who has had bad things happen to her, tortured, soul destroying, etc... I have some real gruesome visuals in my head, but one thing I want is for it to have been more traumatic to her than if she had been raped (A crimelord broke her basically)...ideas?

Mind controlled and forced to brutalize and kill their loved ones.   

 

I consider mind control to be one of the more easily abused power sets, and perhaps the most likely to lead to corruption of even those who are trying to be heroic. 

[gewing]

Just call it "research". While I abhor playing evil/very shady characters as a player, I often brush up on what's considered credible villainy these days as part of my GM duties.

 

 

there are reasons I don't play "Evil" Characters.   prankster badguys, MAYBE, but I can too easily see a fleeing villain lead the heroes past a school, and lob a fireball at it.  

 

History has made me think that the "Guilty but Insane" ruling is more appropriate than the "not guilty by reason of Insanity."

 

Too many who claim NGbRI as a defense seem to have been quite aware their acts were wrong.   

 

Joker should have been Executed 50+ years ago.  

[Tasha]

Topic says it all.  What would you consider to be worse than rape?  I have an idea for a female hero, who has had bad things happen to her, tortured, soul destroying, etc... I have some real gruesome visuals in my head, but one thing I want is for it to have been more traumatic to her than if she had been raped (A crimelord broke her basically)...ideas?

 

First, this is a borderline offensive topic.

 

That said. Pretty much the only thing that would be equal to Sexual Assault would be brutal torture (which Sexual Assualt seems to have similar aftermaths to). Torture and Sexual Assault both leave LONG lasting scars in the psyche, which manifest in ways that can seem very random to those who haven't been through the ordeal. Perhaps seeing friends/Family tortured could be as lasting. IMHO Simple death of family and/or friends is something that does eventually fade in power (having had a friend murdered I do have experience with this). Every survivor of Sexual assult that I have ever talked to says that it never completly goes away. Have her be tortured heroically then broken, stay away from sexual assault in her background. The latter as a background can lead to some HUGE misunderstandings with any women in your group (even IF they don't admit to it). It's seen as one of those things that only 'creepy guys" bring up.

[Ragitsu]

First, this is a borderline offensive topic.

 

How so, more than any other dark subject matter? We discuss murder all the time (either directly or indirectly) on these boards.

 

 

 

 Have her be tortured heroically then broken, stay away from sexual assault in her background. The latter as a background can lead to some HUGE misunderstandings with any women in your group (even IF they don't admit to it). It's seen as one of those things that only 'creepy guys" bring up.

 

Men get raped too, y'know, so wouldn't there also possibly be men that may have huge misunderstandings? Since that's the case, then one may as well avoid anything vaguely controversial.

 

(I remember getting criticism for bringing up cancer...).

[JmOz]

First, this is a borderline offensive topic.

 

That said. Pretty much the only thing that would be equal to Sexual Assault would be brutal torture (which Sexual Assualt seems to have similar aftermaths to). Torture and Sexual Assault both leave LONG lasting scars in the psyche, which manifest in ways that can seem very random to those who haven't been through the ordeal. Perhaps seeing friends/Family tortured could be as lasting. IMHO Simple death of family and/or friends is something that does eventually fade in power (having had a friend murdered I do have experience with this). Every survivor of Sexual assult that I have ever talked to says that it never completly goes away. Have her be tortured heroically then broken, stay away from sexual assault in her background. The latter as a background can lead to some HUGE misunderstandings with any women in your group (even IF they don't admit to it). It's seen as one of those things that only 'creepy guys" bring up.

 

 

 

For what it is worth, the intent was not to offend, though I must admit I was worried about it becoming very juvenile, which IMO it did not.  As someone else said the fact is that if you are doing a street crime based campaign then rape should come up.  I think Dark Champions especialy gives us a chance to look at some of the social evils and trust me, if there is one crime I would love to see us go mosaic on it would be rape (an eye for an eye...a gentiles for a gentiles?) 

[JmOz]

there are reasons I don't play "Evil" Characters.   prankster badguys, MAYBE, but I can too easily see a fleeing villain lead the heroes past a school, and lob a fireball at it.  

 

History has made me think that the "Guilty but Insane" ruling is more appropriate than the "not guilty by reason of Insanity."

 

Too many who claim NGbRI as a defense seem to have been quite aware their acts were wrong.   

 

Joker should have been Executed 50+ years ago.  

 

My problem with Joker being alive is this: I can see the courts having not sentenced him to death.  I can see Batman not doing it because of his beliefs/morals/fears...I have trouble believing that he has not had an "accident" with fatal consequences and next to no review...

[Beast]

does it really matter what you do
the question is are you trying to create a new villian
push the right buttons and the player may just go over to the dark side

[Tasha]

How so, more than any other dark subject matter? We discuss murder all the time (either directly or indirectly) on these boards.

 

Men get raped too, y'know, so wouldn't there also possibly be men that may have huge misunderstandings? Since that's the case, then one may as well avoid anything vaguely controversial.

 

(I remember getting criticism for bringing up cancer...).

Don't start the who crappy Sexual Assault isn't any worse than _____ arguments. Sexual Assault stays with the victim for years (notice that in neither post did I gender the victim), Many victims end up with PTSD and have to relive that trauma each time something happens to invoke the memory.

 

Sexual Assault is bad no matter what gender the victim is. In my experience most Men have no idea what it's like to go through the experience. Seeing the way that many men trivilize the crime (again it happens to both genders).

 

This kind of background/Storyline is the kind of thing that is very easy to go overboard with. It's best to stay from such things, unless you know for certain that every member of the gaming group is 100% ok with it. There are other motivations that are less likely to cause issues with game groups that are just as mentally devistating (ie Torture). It's very hard to use this one in a way that ends up feeling positive in the longrun.

[Ragitsu]

Sexual Assault is bad no matter what gender the victim is. In my experience most Men have no idea what it's like to go through the experience. Seeing the way that many men trivilize the crime (again it happens to both genders).

 

Men can't bring up rape, especially because they don't appreciate the suffering as much. Got it.

[Tasha]

Men can't bring up rape, especially because they don't appreciate the suffering as much. Got it.

WTH is with you twisting what I am trying to say? Are you TRYING to take offense to anything I might say?

 

Keep Sexual assault out of RPGs. You avoid a ton of potential pitfalls. I have explained it as best as I can. I won't be back to this thread. Sorry, I even brought it up. Clearly this isn't a good place to have an adult conversation about this topic.

[bigbywolfe]

Men can't bring up rape, especially because they don't appreciate the suffering as much. Got it.

That's not remotely what she said. It looks like you are just trying to be inflammatory at this point.

[Grailknight]

Victims of both genders can appreciate the suffering.  But men, in general, don't live under the constant fear of rape. It doesn't play into our psyches the same way.

 

As a male, you may visualize being robbed, beaten or murdered but rape doesn't usually enter that thought train. Women have all of those plus rape drilled into them as possible scenarios whenever they are in a strange place.

 

Unlike murder, rape is repeatable and while the victim doesn't suffer less they can become inured to the point of shamed/hopeless victimization. And this can be profitable for the rapist beyond the act of sex. There is a worldwide industry that revolves around the abduction and trafficking of women(and children of both sexes) for sex.

 

There are still cultures and mindsets that say the woman is at fault in the rape if she dresses modernly or goes somewhere alone. Traveling anywhere is more dangerous for women.  Even in our society, the rape victim has to prove the act was unwilling.

 

So yes, women are more sensitive on this subject. They are far more likely to be the victims

[Nothere]

Just for clarification.

 

Even in our society, the rape victim has to prove the act was unwilling.

 

Are you suggesting we put people in prision with no evidence?

[Ragitsu]

Victims of both genders can appreciate the suffering.  But men, in general, don't live under the constant fear of rape. It doesn't play into our psyches the same way.

 

As a male, you may visualize being robbed, beaten or murdered but rape doesn't usually enter that thought train. Women have all of those plus rape drilled into them as possible scenarios whenever they are in a strange place.

 

Unlike murder, rape is repeatable and while the victim doesn't suffer less they can become inured to the point of shamed/hopeless victimization. And this can be profitable for the rapist beyond the act of sex. There is a worldwide industry that revolves around the abduction and trafficking of women(and children of both sexes) for sex.

 

There are still cultures and mindsets that say the woman is at fault in the rape if she dresses modernly or goes somewhere alone. Traveling anywhere is more dangerous for women.  Even in our society, the rape victim has to prove the act was unwilling.

 

So yes, women are more sensitive on this subject. They are far more likely to be the victims

 

All of which slants public opinion to the general belief that rape isn't as bad...doesn't warrant as much of a call for concern...when it happens to a man, nor that men shouldn't also be on guard when they go to parties with the possibility of heavy inebriation or other forms of intoxication.

 

Sorry: that ain't the sort of game I want to play.

[Grailknight]

Just for clarification.

 

Even in our society, the rape victim has to prove the act was unwilling.

 

Are you suggesting we put people in prision with no evidence?

 

No, and I apologize if I gave this impression.

 

What I meant is that in most violent crimes, the victim is not attacked with accusations that they provoked the violence and then changed their minds.

[Grailknight]

All of which slants public opinion to the general belief that rape isn't as bad...doesn't warrant as much of a call for concern...when it happens to a man, nor that men shouldn't also be on guard when they go to parties with the possibility of heavy inebriation or other forms of intoxication.

 

Sorry: that ain't the sort of game I want to play.

 

It's a horrible crime  upon victims of either sex. No one is denying that.

 

But even though everyone should be on guard against criminal assault, can you honestly say you've had the possibility of being raped drilled into as often as most women have?  It's not a worry most men have when they go bar crawling. 

[Christopher]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil

Difficulty themathic to say the least.

 

But I think I remember some possible points from movies:

- Having it happen to your loved ones instead of you. That is a very common villanious approach to make X worse.

  - Being mind or body controlled to do it too your loved ones. Or maybe a evil clone/twin. Or tricked into doing it. Even if they understand it was not you willingly doing it, will they ever be able to truly feel that way when they are with you?

- I remember the end of a movie where a japanese women was raped and got pregnant. Her familiy either did not believe she was raped or could not act on it (social status), so she was forced to marry her rapist.

- uncertainty what happened. This turns your own imagination against you. Adds some laser guided amnesia to the whole thing. You could be at the same time too afraid to want know, without the villain actually having to do anything to you.

 

You could easily enter fridge stuffing territory there however.

Also "Note that not only is rape considered a game changer for almost all characters, but it is also so for the writer." And you are the writer here.

 

 

Character dependant:

- Warrior survival. For many fictional warriors it is the greatest insult to be defeated but not killed by the enemy. Only way to make it worse is to be saved by the same enemy. "Not worth killing" and Cruel Mercy are terms often used.

[Vondy]

That rape is the worst traumatic life experience a person can endure is a modern cultural myth.

 

Trauma is highly phenomenological and subjective -- and different survivors perceive it, well, differently.

 

Worse than rape? Depends on who you ask.

 

Torture, maiming, disfigurement, a beating leaving most bones broken and requiring monhs or years to recover from, being shot or stabbed multiple times, watching loved ones suffer or die, Gillian Anderson talking....

 

All could be described as more or less tramatic depending on who experienced it.

 

Its akin to the "childbirth is the worst pain anyone can ever experience" argument.

 

I know mothers who describe other pains they've endured as worse than giving birth.

 

Its all very individual.

[procyon]

Ok, I officially don't like this line of thought.

 

(Of course, the fact that my players are my wife and kids means that our games are a family 'bonding' activity.  Not, 'hey kiddos, this is just how twisted life can get...')

 

Watch 'The Deer Hunter'. 

 

You will see a way to turn a good person into a mindless killing puppet.

See the person forced / compelled to participate in kill / die contests.  Addict said person (likely against their will) to heroine (addiction will happen if you give it to someone whether they wanted to take it or not...).   And just keep following the story till you find a broken shell of a person who loses who they are and lives only to do what they have to do...and trying to remember what they used to be would be as painful as what they went through.

 

You can skip all the other focus of the last couple pages.