Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice

[NuSoardGraphite]

The reviews are generally saying what I was fearing:

 

CGI explosion fest

Sweet!

 

Luthor is more annoying than clever/evil

Expected.

 

very little parallel is drawn between Supes and Bats

Parallel or contrast? I was hoping they would show the contrast in their approach to vigilanteism.

 

No emotion, you don't root for these characters

I dont expect much her, but Warner needs to figure out how to pull on thenfans heart strings.

 

No humor

Like man of steel then?

 

WW is just dropped in at the end

expected, but still disappointing.

 

Will hopefully see it this weekend and will be able to field my own thoughts on it shortly.

[Hermit]

Prior movie portrayals of Batman acting too much like the Punisher don't excuse that continued characterization.

 

Really, in the last DC/Marvel crossover I read (the Perez art one), Bats goes out of the way to beat the snot out of the Punisher simply to highlight the difference in outlooks.

 

I haven't read DKR in years, but I don't remember him being particularly murdery. Brutal, yes, but I don't remember him doing much in the way of killing mooks. I could be mistaken, though.

 

That said, if I keep hearing positive reviews from fellow forumites, I may see it. I think the wife still wants to see it. She doesn't really give a hoot about genre tropes anyway. Early reviews -- and statements from Snyder, who seems to be one of the least genre-savvy filmmakers currently doing superhero films -- made it sound almost wholly unpalatable.  I am kind of curious to see how Bats/Wayne and WW are portrayed, too.

I can totally respect a dislike of superheroes who kill, though if it is any consultation in Batfleck's case the two deaths were

Once with when he kicked away a grenade and the guy jumped after it and died. Once when he shot the Gas on the back of Flamethrower man, Who didn't check to see what bruce shot before tried to shoot a hostage. Now, there is a violent take no prisoners killapalooza scene... in a DREAM... with parademons swooping in etc. Could it be prophetic? Maybe, but until it happens, I'm going to say the dream doesn't count.

. That might still be too much of a line crossed for some but for me, part of the story was Batman finding himself again so I'm oddly okay with it.

 

It is my hope that Bruce in future movies will hold more firmly to his older codes we know and love

having found some of his idealism again

but it is an unsure thing.

 

I was more disturbed by

The fact Bruce was branding/torturing folks, or at least one. BUUUT... and Big Spoiler again, at the end of the movie, he doesn't do the same to Luthor instead branding the wall behind him. I choose to see that as Bruce finding his better self again step by step but maybe I'm a sap.

 

[Hermit]

That's the origin they used in the JL origin cartoon based on the new versions of the characters that I saw recently. I think it was JL: War.

Thanks. It had been awhile since I saw that, so I didn't recall but I'm glad to know i read the scene right then.

[Pattern Ghost]

I can totally respect a dislike of superheroes who kill

 

Not even that. More when it's handled poorly. I didn't mind as much in MoS as a lot of folks, though I think it was poorly executed. It's just that having Bats be a casual killer (as in the first Burton movie, with the bomb in the pants, etc.) is off the mark for any modern incarnation of the character. Most of the Avengers in the MCU aren't shy about killing, but it fits their backgrounds as presented better.

 

I think a big disconnect for me with Bats killing is that he does not want to become like the criminals he hunts. He's been pretty emphatic about that over the years, and I regard it as a core part of his character. Using that properly would be having him get near the edge: becoming more brutal and more damaging to criminals (causing permanent disability, disfigurement) or wanting to kill the Joker after Death in the Family, or even against the KGBeast where he locks him in a sewer to possibly die (but that intent retconned away later), but not crossing the line because he ultimately doesn't want to become the thing he hates.

 

Hope that makes sense. I kind of rushed it, have to make some food.

 

Edit: Regarding the spoilers. That doesn't sound too bad. Some of the reviews were talking about him shooting people and blowing up manned vehicles. If that was just dream sequence stuff -- nightmare stuff -- then it makes sense, really. He's seeing the worse in himself and in Supes both. I still don't like Snyder, though. Seems like a major tool.

[Hermit]

There's vehicle gun play, but

(And my eyes do suck so maybe I missed something) but it looked more like he was going after the enemy gun turrents and vehicles to ruin rather than kill the people. Anyway, I didn't see anyone die from it. No body, I assume survival!

If I'm wrong on that one, I'll apologize to you

[Enforcer84]

Nice Review, Hermit.

May actually see it, now

[Pattern Ghost]

Snyder owes Hermit a commission.

[Hermit]

Nice Review, Hermit.

May actually see it, now

 

Heh. The advice I received was "Go in with Low Expectations".

I know for a fact you think Batman is a tool. You're not going to suddenly love him in this movie, in fact it is safe to say this does not show him at his best in any area. He's older, meaner, and yes, more violent. Weirdly, I think that was part of the appeal for me. Bruce is very much in danger of going into the abyss with this movie... and

Only Superman, who is a bit lost himself can help save him though it isn't intentional Go fig.

 

 

Wait till next week if you don't want crowds. I don't know what the legs on this will be, but it was pretty much full at the theater I was in. 

 

It bears repeating, this corrects a lot of MoS mistakes... if you liked MOS, you'll like this. If you hated Man of Steel, I don't think  this will fix things enough for you to like it.

 

I treated it as an Elseworlds... 

and maybe the fact I'm not as invested in as I have been the more established Marvel Movie verse helps

[Hermit]

Snyder owes Hermit a commission.

 

I'm not really that impressed by Snyder's PR skills, and I think a lot of  times he confuses what he thinks is cool with mature; not the same thing, and not something fans are going to always (or even often) agree on. Lord knows I think he screwed up by casting Eisenberg, particularly when Cranston from Breaking Bad was in the running 

 

Other reviews from other posters will come in,and (since I am a notoriously light touch ..well, I think I am) their reviews will no doubt be 'firmer'. So you may want to get a sampling from more than one fellow geek.

[Hermit]

Someone elsewhere brought up an interesting point about ultra violent Batman in B v S. Essentially, it doesn't make sense to have a Batman with a Code Vs Killing for this movie or you would end up with the jarring situation of "All life is sacred ...except that guy, the one with the Big S on his chest. Totally going to try to kill him for the next hour."

 

That will not be a comfort to anyone who prefers the purer form of Batman (And I say that without sarcasm), but it is a good point and made me chuckle a bit besides.

[Bazza]

Lois Lane makes a list comparing Superman & Batman, spoilered because big image, from Joy of Tech

 

 

 

[Starlord]

 

THE VERDICT/Grade-

I really really liked this movie. It gets a solid B, and had it not been for the weak link of Zany Luthor casting/writing and some misteps in editing, I would have given it an A-.

For those that prefer the 1-10 method. I'd give it a 7, maybe even a 7.5 (Would have been a 8.5 or even 9 if not for the above mentioned problems).

 

 

Wow, we had pretty much the exact same review...except yours was written much better, of course.  I'd go with 7 also.  Also, if you are not familiar with the DC universe, I can see someone being VERY confused during the first half of the movie.

[Hermit]

Wow, we had pretty much the exact same review...except yours was written much better, of course.  I'd go with 7 also.  Also, if you are not familiar with the DC universe, I can see someone being VERY confused during the first half of the movie.

 

Thank you, I'll just hide behind you when the torch wielding mobs return  

[L. Marcus]

Pitchforks! Pitchforks and torches! Get your pitchforks and torches heeyar! Get 'em while they're hot!

[Hermit]

Pitchforks! Pitchforks and torches! Get your pitchforks and torches heeyar! Get 'em while they're hot!

Right, new Avatar it is!

[Starlord]

Thank you, I'll just hide behind you when the torch wielding mobs return  

 

You take the 'Batman-is-too-violent' pitchfork wielders and I'll take the 'Wonder Woman-isn't-a-body-builder' torch throwers.

[Hermit]

You take the 'Batman-is-too-violent' pitchfork wielders and I'll take the 'Wonder Woman-isn't-a-body-builder' torch throwers.

 

I was sort of hoping I could be the one to defend Wonder Woman's honor so she would be grateful for the sweetness of my attempt and reward me with a kiss....

where as if angry violent Batman were to kiss me I... no, just no.

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

I just find the juxtaposition of "Ben Affleck does a great job as Batman" with "Batman is hyper violent, brutal, and murdering" to mean "I never liked Batman"

[Hermit]

I just find the juxtaposition of "Ben Affleck does a great job as Batman" with "Batman is hyper violent, brutal, and murdering" to mean "I never liked Batman"

 

And there you go seemingly putting words in people's mouths again.

 

Christopher, have you seen the movie yet? Just curious.

I don't expect you to pay up for something you're 90% sure you'll hate. Heck, you would be foolish to waste your money, but if you haven't seen it, then I don't understand the vitriol against those who have seen it and dare to have enjoyed it to the point you feel the need to apparently miss-attribute like that.

 

If you have seen it, may I suggest you put up a review here? There are always those with similar tastes and priorities who would probably appreciate the warning/review.

[Cygnia]

Alfred Pennyworth Is the Hero We Need

 

Sadly, it leaves out BTAS.

[Hermit]

Alfred Pennyworth Is the Hero We Need

 

Sadly, it leaves out BTAS.

 A shame. BTAS Alfred had some zingers

[Iuz the Evil]

I'm now maybe... MAYBE going to see this when it comes out on video. I agree Hermit is owed a commission, but since I'm a big DCU fan of the Diniverse stripe I'm expecting to hate this.

 

Batman and Superman do not kill. Superman is inherently noble and the mightiest hero on earth. Batman the smartest. I can't stand DKR. It was innovative when it came out, now it's tired.

 

I don't even like the new animated fare for that reason. Damien Wayne is a nightmare. Murder isn't heroic in a 4 color comic universe.

 

I want my escapist adolescent power fantasy to be idealistic, thanks. This sounds rather not.

[Hermit]

Totally fair. You've got your own standards and you stick to them. 

 

And yes, the Batman in this is very heavily DKR in a lot of ways. It's my hope from here on out he finds himself and becomes the better Batman Batman:tas and many comics have portrayed. We'll see. But  I enjoyed the  redemption angle involved here.

[Hermit]

 

Seems relevant to the discussion

[Christopher R Taylor]

Batman in Dark Knight didn't kill anyone; he could have saved one helicopter with a bomb and chose not too, but while he put guys in the hospital and tortured a few guys, he didn't kill.

 

Has batman killed a lot of people in the films?  Yeah. He blew up a factory with people in it.  I didn't like that, either, that one line he won't cross is very defining to the character, particularly given his past.

 

The entire premise of the film is reversed, it should have been older, wiser Batman with experience teaching crazed marauding murdering alien Superman to calm down, care about life, and stand for something besides self defense.