Shiva13 Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Author for what? The core book has material by myself, Sean Fannon, Ross Watson, and Steve Kenson. That's it as far as I know. Unless you count all of the testimonials to Aaron. The person you mentioned after yourself. I refuse to ever again buy any books he has worked on. Period. Regardless of the subject. I have no problems with the other writers. But that one I do. I have known him face to face. I am restraining myself a lot in this message. To stay within forum rules. But suffice it to say. I have very strong feelings on the matter. A writer who has demonstrated zero respect for the audience they are writing for does not deserve any support. And I will not give any financial support to them. That's the bottom line to me. I chose to reply to you because I felt you deserved answers about why I wasn't backing a project in which I normally certainly would. And in general. You were polite about the whole situation. Others were not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Well, when I posted about this on another board, a couple of repliers didn't care for the fact that it was for Champions 6th Edition. It's a disappointing sentiment, but it's there. Just curious. Did it seem to be negative towards 6E specifically? Or just that it was Champions/Hero? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I refuse to ever again buy any books he has worked on. Period. Regardless of the subject. And we should all be able to accept that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Indeed. Unfortunate for Shiva13, but it's certainly his choice, and his business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcw43921 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just curious. Did it seem to be negative towards 6E specifically? Or just that it was Champions/Hero? Sixth Edition. The people who posted were perfectly happy with 5th Edition. I've never heard of anyone who downright loathes Champions or HERO System altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I've never heard of anyone who downright loathes Champions or HERO System altogether. Lucky. And thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcw43921 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 You're Welcome. What have you heard--are there people out there who loathe Champions and HERO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Let's just say that in years past forums like RPGnet haven't had the most friendly responses to HERO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 What Hyper-Man said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Scrolling down the Kickstarter page (since I doubt someone for whom Champions 6e is a nonstarter frequents these boards for added details), I see: "created using Champions 6th Edition." A cover that does not mention any game system. A quote from Steve Long (author, Champions Villains) WAY further down, "Aaron Allston's Strike Force presents the characters and villains of the setting in the Hero System, but we also have packages available to present these heroes and enemies in other rulesets such as Mutants and Masterminds, ICONS, and Savage Worlds." Followed by a quote from "Darren Watts, Galactic Champions" Way down at the bottom we see Hero Labs character packs right after Hero Designer. And a picture of the first one's cover, emblazoned with "Champions Campaign Sourcebook" prominently. Last quote goes to Dean Shomshak, Ultimate Mystic (which a reader may or may not know as a Hero/Champions book). Given all of the above, a reader of the page could easily believe this is first and foremost a Hero System product. What would leap off the page to tell him otherwise? Can you still clarify this at/near the top of the page? The point I'm trying to make isn't that the product is HERO-centeric -- the campaign, after all, was a HERO campaign for 20 years. The point is that to dismiss it due to it coming out under 6E rules, when aside from the character sheets, there are no other 6E rules in the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 The point I'm trying to make isn't that the product is HERO-centeric -- the campaign, after all, was a HERO campaign for 20 years. The point is that to dismiss it due to it coming out under 6E rules, when aside from the character sheets, there are no other 6E rules in the book. My point is that the Kickstarter page starts out with a reference to being "created using Champions 6th Edition", which seems to suggest it is based on 6e rules. Can the page be clarified in that regard? Should it? As an example, it could state that "while Strike Force was a Hero campaign for 20 years, the campaign book is largely system-neutral, other than a small section of character sheets for many of the characters in the campaign." I was thinking HeroHate in general, rather than 6e hate specifically - could 4e and e character sheets be added as extras? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 The point is that to dismiss it due to it coming out under 6E rules, when aside from the character sheets, there are no other 6E rules in the book. Those Guys (capitalization intentional) need to get over it. Complaining that Hero Games isn't producing a 5e product is like complaining that the local GM dealership doesn't stock parts for your Bel Air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 My point is that the Kickstarter page starts out with a reference to being "created using Champions 6th Edition", which seems to suggest it is based on 6e rules. Can the page be clarified in that regard? Should it? As an example, it could state that "while Strike Force was a Hero campaign for 20 years, the campaign book is largely system-neutral, other than a small section of character sheets for many of the characters in the campaign." I was thinking HeroHate in general, rather than 6e hate specifically - could 4e and e character sheets be added as extras? My point is that the Kickstarter page starts out with a reference to being "created using Champions 6th Edition", which seems to suggest it is based on 6e rules. Can the page be clarified in that regard? Should it? As an example, it could state that "while Strike Force was a Hero campaign for 20 years, the campaign book is largely system-neutral, other than a small section of character sheets for many of the characters in the campaign." I was thinking HeroHate in general, rather than 6e hate specifically - could 4e and e character sheets be added as extras? No, I don't think there's a need to change the text. And no, there's not going to be 4E character sheets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Those Guys (capitalization intentional) need to get over it. Complaining that Hero Games isn't producing a 5e product is like complaining that the local GM dealership doesn't stock parts for your Bel Air. In addition. no other company produces back-dated material. All D&D material for 5E, all Shadowrun material is for 5E, GURPS is for 4E, Savage Worlds is for the newest edition. Same with all other systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 That should have said "4e and 5e". Oops... I don't disagree with using the most current edition. Adding sheets for more systems could be worthwhile, but requires authors conversant with those systems, of course. But reading the KS page in isolation (forgetting what I know from the first version, and from the discussions on these Boards), I can see why a reader would think this is first and foremost a 6e Champions product, rather than a much broader "Long Term SuperHero campaign advice" product which is virtually entirely system neutral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 In addition. no other company produces back-dated material. All D&D material for 5E, all Shadowrun material is for 5E, GURPS is for 4E, Savage Worlds is for the newest edition. Same with all other systems. The nice thing these days is that, in most cases (including Hero) companies sell one or more previous editions in PDF format. So you can still get all that stuff if you prefer an earlier version, and your players can pick up their own copies if they want, etc. Heck, D&D's available in PDF format all the way back to the 1974 booklet edition now. You can get almost everything ever produced for any version of Traveller (including third-party products). And of course Hero still sells lots of 5e things in PDF and/or hardcopy. It may be disappointing that new stuff's not coming out for your favorite edition any more, but the great thing about RPGs is that making up new stuff is part of the game. Buy the new thing and translate it! Make your own version! It's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 That should have said "4e and 5e". Oops... I don't disagree with using the most current edition. Adding sheets for more systems could be worthwhile, but requires authors conversant with those systems, of course. But reading the KS page in isolation (forgetting what I know from the first version, and from the discussions on these Boards), I can see why a reader would think this is first and foremost a 6e Champions product, rather than a much broader "Long Term SuperHero campaign advice" product which is virtually entirely system neutral. True. But the text was written by Jason and Ross Watson, so this is what they intended as the message to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 The nice thing these days is that, in most cases (including Hero) companies sell one or more previous editions in PDF format. So you can still get all that stuff if you prefer an earlier version, and your players can pick up their own copies if they want, etc. Heck, D&D's available in PDF format all the way back to the 1974 booklet edition now. You can get almost everything ever produced for any version of Traveller (including third-party products). And of course Hero still sells lots of 5e things in PDF and/or hardcopy. It may be disappointing that new stuff's not coming out for your favorite edition any more, but the great thing about RPGs is that making up new stuff is part of the game. Buy the new thing and translate it! Make your own version! It's all good. Jason looks to be trying to get a lot of 4e and 5e material out in PDF, so there's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Jason looks to be trying to get a lot of 4e and 5e material out in PDF, so there's that. Apparently I've already used up my quota of Likes for the day (what can I say, Hero attracts smart people), so I'll just say "Great!" I'd love to have my 4e collection in PDF format some day. Heck, I'd like to have all the way back to 1e in PDF format some day. But, I'm that kind of guy. (I spent part of my weekend going through every version of Hero System ever published and typing the skills listings into a spreadsheet, noting when skills were dropped, changed names, etc. Why? Because it's fun! No, really. Why are you looking at me like that?) To get us back on track, we're at 384 backers and $24,230, with 21 days to go. Less than $6k to full color! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I just noticed that there is not a Strikeforce entry in this "sticky" RPGnet thread so someone may want to create an entry. http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?710285-CROWD-FUNDING-SPOTLIGHT-Vol-3-Role-Playing-Games-amp-Related-Projects This thread has already fell to page 3. HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Apparently I've already used up my quota of Likes for the day (what can I say, Hero attracts smart people), so I'll just say "Great!" I'd love to have my 4e collection in PDF format some day. Heck, I'd like to have all the way back to 1e in PDF format some day. But, I'm that kind of guy. (I spent part of my weekend going through every version of Hero System ever published and typing the skills listings into a spreadsheet, noting when skills were dropped, changed names, etc. Why? Because it's fun! No, really. Why are you looking at me like that?) To get us back on track, we're at 384 backers and $24,230, with 21 days to go. Less than $6k to full color! If you ever do that for weapons, let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 If you ever do that for weapons, let me know. Will do. The plan is to do it for everything, but I fear I'll be well into retirement before I finish doing my complete analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjd59 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 "HERO haters gonna hate." I only have two words for the HERO haters... Their Loss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I only have two words for the HERO haters... Their Loss! Pretty much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Just curious, Susano. Did Mr. Allston mix things from different editions in his campaign towards the end or did he primarily stick to just edition 4th, 5th or 6th? I imagine with a campaign that ran so long, there could be one or two edition changes that happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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