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Hyper-Man

John Wick / Keanu Reeves for 6e

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But he is a pretty good driver.  He's not a gymnast and doesn't have Acrobatics but he certainly has Breakfall.  Plus, making his DEX lower would only save a few points at the expense of buying Skill Levels with Driving and Breakfall. Going down that road seems very GURPy to me.  I tried to balance the 'accuracy' of the build with the idea that his abilities have been upgraded and simplified over time. I purposely did not give him more than 2 Skill levels* of any one type with that in mind (he is best with a pistol).  Especially the Overall ones since I consider having 3 of those in the realm of a minor super ability since that is the break point for doing tasks 1 step down the time chart.

 

* I made an exception with PSL's due their unique nature.

 

Also, I can see pure martial artists with a higher DEX and even Lightning Reflex bonus than John has but not with the gun skills as well.

 

HM

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Oh, I went to see it on the original Thursday night opening.  I just haven't updated anything here to avoid spoiling it for anyone.  I don't think his combat capabilities really changed. It's just a matter of keeping track of the updates and changes to his Contacts and other Perks.  To be honest, those types of details are not my forte.  Michael Surbrook is a much better researcher than I am on such things.  I just really like modeling the combat mechanics.  With that said, I will get around to making an updated version (or at least list of changes) at some point.

 

:)
HM

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re: 20 STR in a heroic setting

 

I understand yours is a house rule but even 3e Justice Inc notes that characteristics of 20 were just the point at which the cost doubled to increase beyond (ex: a 23 STR costs 16 points).  4e HERO/Champions later codifies 30 as the 'real' upper limit for normal characteristics.

 

HM

 

I don't understand the reason for the question.  Did I mention 4e rules somewhere in this thread?

 

You did, but I suspect it was a typo. See the quote above (and in bold for emphasis).

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What additional skills would John Wick have as a result of being a former member of the Navy SEALs?

(I don't believe he is missing very much 'relevant stuff' from the SEAL package on page 54 of Dark Champions 5e).

 

This is implied by the Payday 2 Wikipedia page which was approved by Lionsgate (the movie studio).

 

Around the same time, Chains is on vacation in Sweden when he is ambushed by Interpol agents. He is able to escape thanks to a tip off from John Wick (Dave Fouquette), an old friend from his time in the Navy SEALS. Having recently come out of retirement to enact revenge on New York's Russian mob, Wick tells Chains that he is looking for a crew, to which he responds by inviting him to the gang. After rescuing Vlad's brother-in-law from a plane crash in the woods, the crew descend upon the McKendrick museum in order to steal 'the diamond', a valuable gemstone that the Dentist is interested in. Hoxton's former partner-in-crime, the Irish burglar Clover (Aoife Duffin) is recruited to help, becoming the first female member of the gang.

 

HM

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Hyper-Man I would love for you to see Chapter 2 and revise your character -- I just watched it tonight and I believe his character has changed slightly...

 

 

Oh, I went to see it on the original Thursday night opening.  I just haven't updated anything here to avoid spoiling it for anyone.  I don't think his combat capabilities really changed. It's just a matter of keeping track of the updates and changes to his Contacts and other Perks.  To be honest, those types of details are not my forte.  Michael Surbrook is a much better researcher than I am on such things.  I just really like modeling the combat mechanics.  With that said, I will get around to making an updated version (or at least list of changes) at some point.

 

:)

HM

 

I've just made some minor changes (I updated the html output in the Downloads section, added some flavor text to his Complications at the suggestion of forum member Durzan Malakim and added Homemade Weapons to his WF for pencils).  I have some ideas for Chapter 2 (Navy SEALS, Continental as an Organizational Contact, additional WF to cover Navy SEALS training) I am just not sure if it's worth making a new sheet or just a list of changes.  I'm also not sure if I have the energy to create all the new weapons he used in the same detail that I did for the first movie.

 

HM

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Group help!

 

What is the consensus on how much XP John should earn from the beginning of the first movie to the end of Chapter 2.?  I can see anywhere from 6 to 15.

 

Should he recover any points invested that are no longer applicable (ex: Marcus, Membership)? I'm thinking they should be re-tasked to other Perks but I'm not sure.

 

HM

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Based on the following table from 6e2 page 66 I am considering giving John 2 Martial Damage Classes to preserve his ability to engage in various Martial Grabs AND shooting other targets (see original fight in his house from the 1st movie).   

 

Opinions?

Has anyone used any of these rules extensively before?

 

GRAB AND COMBAT VALUE
The standard CV penalties for performing a successful Grab are:

Grabber:
½ DCV against all attackers (including Grabbed character)
Full OCV against the Grabbed character
½ OCV against other targets (if attacks are possible at all)

Grabbed:
½ DCV against all attackers (including Grabber)
-3 OCV against the Grabber (if attacks are possible at all)
½ OCV against other targets (if attacks are possible at all)

At the GM’s option, if the Grabber’s STR is 20 or more points higher than the Grabbed character’s STR, change the penalties to the following:

Grabber:
-2 DCV against all attackers (including Grabbed character)

Full OCV against the Grabbed character
-1 OCV against other targets (if attacks are possible at all)

 

:)

HM

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I'd avoid the damage classes to prevent inflating his damage to levels that we don't see in the films, and consider looking at simply buying targeted levels to eliminate the penalties and some extra strength with the limitation that it only adds to John's STR for purposes of gaining the +20 effect. 

 

Not as clean as buying the DCs, but it does prevent John from throwing more damage than we appear to see, and also prevents his needing actual superhuman opponents to find someone that can grapple with him effectively.

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From a related thread on the Fantasy Hero forum:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/95702-holy-crap-disarm-is-overpowered/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2598706

 

Hyper-Man

On a somewhat related note I was reviewing the Grab rules (which Disarm is just a specific case) and was reminded of the OCV and DCV modifiers that are imposed when the Grab is successful.  It's not that big of a deal in a Fantasy Hero setting but in a Dark Champions setting with guns the penalties can be a very big deal.  See this thread if you are interested in seeing more.

 

LINK

 

HM

 

Surrealone

The penalties are only a huge deal if you don't use your grabbed opponent as jack armor/partial cover ... thereby offsetting the DCV penalty in a major way.  (Since you're a John Wick fan, pay close attention to how Wick manipulates grabbed targets when other opponents are present; he frequently uses them as jack armor.) 

 

 

Hyper-Man

John, when fully armed at least, is normally concerned with eliminating all recognized targets as quickly and efficiently (conserving ammunition) as possible. If someone is close enough that he can bring them down with some sort of grab or throw it then frees up his eyes and gun hand to focus on targets that are further away. Once the immediate far targets are eliminated he then can put head shots into the grabbed target.  While using some grabbed targets as shields occurs (the red shirts in the Red Circle?) it's not a main strategy.

 

HM

 

Surrealone

Yea, we'll have to agree to disagree on that -- given that Wick often uses 3 shots where 2 will do (example: when attacked in his home in the first movie) ... and given that his use of grabbed targets for cover was necessary for his success in Red Circle.

But we're off topic, here... :)

 

Any other opinions?

 

I just recently re-watched the kill-counter videos from both movies and only saw a few cases of John actually using cover and none involved him using a 'meat-shield'.  His grabs of opponents looked primarily intended to keep that particular opponent from being an immediate threat which freed up his gun hand to deal with other gun toting opponents nearby.  Once the ranged threats are dealt with he then usually makes a comparatively easy head shot vs. the grabbed target.

 

here are the kill counter videos:

 

HM

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Also based on John's actions in the 2nd and 3rd act of Chapter 2 he appears to have some form of the Takeaway martial maneuver (a better version of Martial Disarm).
 

Maneuver Phase Pts OCV DCV Damage/Effect

Takeaway ½ 5 +0 +0 Grab Weapon, +10 STR to take weapon away

 

The problem is that this maneuver is only listed as part of a very few real world martial arts - Fencing, Kenjutsu, Ninjutsu and a couple other more exotic arts.  The cinematic section has it as part of Gun Fu but up to this point I have resisted using this art as it is mostly ranged maneuvers and based on movies like Equilibrium.

 

Thoughts?

 

HM

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The Takeaway maneuver may only be listed in a few of the martial arts in the UMA but that doesn't mean it can't be incorporated into other styles.  There's nothing to say that John didn't learn that particular maneuver on his own sometime during his long and storied career.

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Several updates made based on Chapter 2. This is now available in the downloads section (link in 1st post).

 

I have added a Text export to the first post but it still needs extensive manual editing for readability.

 

HM

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