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So, I finally got European Enemies. . .


CaptnStrawberry

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. . .. on sale in nearly perfect condition from Paizo.  I have nearly all the Champions supplements from 4th and 5th edition, but thought this one was eminently skip-able.  Comments on this forum convinced me to at least give it a try!

 

At first glance, it's hard to form an overall opinion.  Fellas such as the Clockmaker, Das Wall,Thespian and Napoleon of Crime look Limburger cheese bad in an Adam West way.   Others, like Carpathia, Glacier and Silhouette have promise.  I've always thought the idea of a Huntsman from Germanic fables would be interesting, and here he is!

 

Whatever the merits of each character, I do think that not every villain should be an A lister.  Silly minor leaguers are kind of a comic book tradition - something for the heroes to easily dispose of in the opening scenes before the master villain's plot has been revealed (I'm looking at you, Stilt-Man).  Sometimes, fatigued by constant defeat, they retire from crime and/or reform, becoming a sometime ally or source of information for their former foes.

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I heartily recommend our forum colleague and Hero author Michael "Susano" Surbrook's very thoughtful "debugging" of European Enemies, on his splendid website, "Surbrook's Stuff": http://surbrook.devermore.net/revisedhero/herorev.html . He updated the characters to Fifth Edition, corrected the many math and system design issues in the write-ups, and discusses the practical and conceptual problems with the characters. Quite useful if you're thinking of ever using any of them. (And I agree with you and Michael that they aren't all stinkers. Just most of them.)

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i can't resist to comment that point Lord Liaden. 

Yes, European - and especially French Supers - are looking lame or "ridicule" in good french terms.

 

I guess it's a choice of the authors to create them such a way. Without forgetting that their names (Seine, Tricolor, etc) are not the most attractives.

 

Superheroes are clearly not in the culture of french people, as we don't have a "cult of th hero" like US people do. To my own regret sometimes.

Tough, I'd like to show you some GOOD superheroic comics that could be used to maybe remake the vision of french capes in the Champions Universe.

 

https://fr-fr.facebook.com/lepatrouilleurwangacomics

 

Patriotic French Opale

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Opale, I appreciate your point that the names of some of the French supers in the current CU -- mentioned in Champions Universe and Champions Worldwide -- may sound odd to a native of France, even if they are grammatically correct. But trust me, compared to the French "characters" in European Enemies, they'd seem like they were penned by Dumas (either one).

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From seeing the rebuilds done on the conversions thread, I see some clever concepts and interesting ideas, and a lot of the art was pretty solid for the pics, so they are usable.  With some work.  But yeah, its a pretty poor supplement.  There were a couple of weak "enemies" books.

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As was pointed out in the conversion thread (IIRC), an awful lot of the European Enemies characters seem to have been designed by people who knew little of Europe, to seem "European" to other people who know little of Europe.

 

Since we have some actual no kidding Europeans posting to the forum, I'd love to see some European villain concepts from an authentic European point of view. Any takers?

 

Dean Shomshak

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Opale

 

I think Dean was looking for you to throw out some ideas rather than to build a character based on an idea.

 

I think what he would like is for you to dig out some real French archetypes from your brain and give them a superhero spin (and preferably a name)...

 

I submit, for the audience, The Chancer.  This villain is a likeable rogue.  He has immense amounts of charm and personality and uses that for personal gain.  He has no morals, no remorse, no pity and considers that he is providing an education to those that he fleeces.  His powers are all about communication and would prefer to talk his way out of a conflict than fight.  He will avoid direct confrontation unless he has prepared to have 'handers' available (people who will fight for him - often reasonable folk convinced that he is being unreasonably dealt with by those persecuting him). It amuses him to cause divides between law enforcement types who fight each other while he slips into the background. 

 

 

Doc

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@ The Arc : errr ? what are those Hexagon comics characters for ? I reviewed some of them, none seem to be "european" thematic to me or did I miss something ?

 

 

Well, I posted it because most of us American probably aren't even aware of French comics or Italian comics, etc...Heck most of us don't know the difference between Tu and Vous. While I couldn't say that they're European "themed" characters they're written by Europeans...

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If it makes your French patriotic heart feel any better, Opale, my first and favorite HERO champion was a French dilettante with a noblesse oblige (and love of positive PR) as his motivation. (^^)

 

 

Was silhouette updated for 5th edition? I somehow remember seeing that villain name before but I know for sure I have never owned a 4th edition book. I could have seen it in one of my friend's old catalog of but I bet I've seen it in a 5th edition book but now I can't recall where. Does anyone know?

 

Foreign Orchid.

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To be honest, I discovered the comics by reading some Olllllllllld marvel comics that included french heroes : Mikros and Photonik.

 

If you have the curiosity to look at them and their teams, it's fun. All in Reagan and Mitterand political eras.

 

And the help you understand better the french vision about superheroes, till 2000 when the first X-Men movies were filmed, most people in France didn't know about them, or dispised them. We don't have a "cult of the hero" as people are rather pessimistic here and not thinking someone special is going to them. Cultural and true.

So, we separated the superheroes from other dranw heroes in two faimilies : the "comics" for superheroes, and the BD (bande déssinée) for others. 

Those are subgenres (like mangas,for example) of the same art.

 

And there is a constant in the thinking frame about french heroes in our literacy : heroes are rogues, thieves, spies, outcast and seen as "abnormal".

I was stunned to discover that in USA you have people that REALLY disguise themselves and try to help people and police (even if everybody is not glad of it)

 

Do that in France, and the cops catch you, you get convicted for been silly, and mocked by all.

 

Very different way of thinking.

 

All of that been said, I think the Essence of heroes in France are given by the musqueteers, Fantomas, or guys like that.

Our heroes are at best tortured ones (again look at Photonik and Mikros, whom stories are great but dark)

 

now i'll try to find some nice idea about french supers.

 

i'm curious to read your comments and to know if other europeans are going to join the challenge

 

Opale - enough with cultural comparison

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I’m open to any comment on possible villainous (or heroic) concepts, whether they are based on cultural attitudes, bits of local color, history, whatever. Opale, your comments on French attitudes were enlightening; thank you!

 

But maybe it’ll help if I give an example of what I think may be a peculiarly American villain concept: the Disgruntled and Discarded Employee. Think of DC’s Toyman, forcibly retired because his toy concepts were too old-fashioned, or Jim Carrey’s Riddler in Batman Forever, desperate to please Bruce Wayne and enraged that his great invention is deemed too dangerous to develop. “Embittered, he turned to a life of crime!”

 

Anyone might be angry at being fired, betrayed by a business partner, etc. but such an exaggerated identification of self and employer seems distinctly American to me. I can’t see it as a French concept, because first, I hear it’s hard to fire anyone in France; and second, the French seem to have a more skeptical, what’s-in-it-for-me attitude to employers. (At least that’s the impression I get from French labor actions.) Loss of a job wouldn't be loss of self.

 

From what Opale says, a French hero is not a private citizen who appropriates social/state functions such as fighting crime. Certainly, not someone who dresses up to stand out and advertise that they are a law unto themselves. Would a super-powered policeman – state sanctioned, identity publicly known, operating with due process and oversight  – be more appropriate for French sensibilities?

 

On reflection, skepticism seems to be a theme through much of French culture. Derrida’s deconstructionist philosophy; the long tradition of satire from Moliere to Charlie Hebdo; anticlericalist doubt that the Church is entitled to its traditional social authority. So whatever French heroes might be, credulity or fanaticism might be premises for some of their opponents. A villain who is relentlessly certain of himself. Oh hey, I just described Javert from les Miserables.

 

Oh, here’s another thought. Paris seems to be the world’s favorite city for expatriates, from 19th century artists and activists fleeing Czarist Russian conquest of Poland, to Americans fleeing McCarthyism (or just cultural philistinism). This might work for heroes or villains.

 

Here’s a hero: The hero Cosmonaut comes from an oppressive alien culture, the Alsafians. As a scientist, she was assigned to study some ultr-tech space-warping bracers, Instead, she stole them and fled to Earth – without a spaceship – since it had fought off her people once already.

 

She first sought asylum in Russia on the theory that since it had the most active space program it must be the most socially and technologically advanced culture. (Hence her Russian pseudonym.) She quickly learned her error on both counts (Putin reminds her unpleasantly of home), and left. She settled in France instead.

 

Cosmonaut’s extreme mobility lets her operate worldwide, fighting crime and rescuing people from disasters as a member of the Heroes Without Borders NGO. (It's volunteerism, but in a socially sanctioned manner. Countries without their own heroes can call on HWB to deal with supervillains and other problems.) In her private life she teaches physics at the University of Paris; with her help, that august institution is preparing Earth’s first classes in Alsafian language and culture. Her identity is public (she can’t hide that she’s alien, though humanoid). Her “costume” is simply her Alsafian space suit, and she only wears it "on the job." She doesn't patrol the city stopping muggers (though she helps the police if they ask).

 

Does this sound plausible?

 

Dean Shomshak

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I think it's worth considering that the French attitude toward superheroes, and superheroics, might be different on Champions Earth, where there have long been real, active superheroes, not just Ameri-centered works of popular fiction. Moreover, many French people would have seen them in action firsthand. During World War II superheroes spearheaded the fight to liberate France from German occupation.

 

What I've seen of the French, they're as passionately patriotic as any people on the planet. There is no more concentrated symbol of a country's pride and power, than a proud superhuman citizen of that country. I can't believe French society, or at least France's government, would not have gotten behind that concept. At the very least, I don't think France would have let the United States monopolize all the superhuman tactical assets. ;)

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On the other hand, the attitude toward superhumans in modern Champions Germany is quite logical given the history of the setting. There certainly are costumed German superheroes today, but none who are state sponsored. The German government will sometimes grant temporary government sanction to select superheroes, but never on a long-term basis. The high-profile use of superhumans as elite soldiers and propaganda symbols by the Nazis during WW II has left Germans uncomfortable with the whole idea of "official" German supers.

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